Charging anomaly

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by jdonalds, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    Common issue on hybrid forums. So what kind of tires did you put on? I'm guessing they aren't LRR (eco tires).

    All that matters is the total amount of kWh's the battery will accept. Run it to empty, charge up and see if the amount jives with previous full charges.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  2. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    @jdonalds wrote: "I also believe the new tires are low rolling resistance." However, I'm sure Honda will decide the tires are the problem.
     
    jdonalds likes this.
  3. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I'll certainly give that a try. My Honda appt isn't until the 8th so I have time to run this experiment.

    I'm also convinced the car is using more power, or at least more predicted EV Range, than normally. I just went to pick my son up at school with a side trip where the distance traveled was 29 miles but the EV Range used was 33 miles. This is contrary to almost all of my around-town trips where I regularly use less than the estimated EV Range.
     
  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    I'm not familiar with that brand... :D
     
  5. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    The car came with Michelin Energy Savers. I liked the tires except they only lasted 27000 miles.

    The new tires are Michelin Primacy MXM4 which are noticeably better. They corner better and are quieter. They are not listed as LRR.

    I had experience with the Prius switching from LRR tires to non-LRR. They lost about 2 miles of range over 50 miles. With this Clarity problem I'm losing about 10 miles out of 50. Something is wrong.
     
  6. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    Could the Clarity be doing some periodic battery balancing or some other house keeping/maintenance?
     
  7. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    @jdonalds,

    How is your tire pressure? Is your after sitting overnight cold psi at 36? Try a just little extra like 39 or 40. If your pressure is low and with the different tires that might account for a big chunk of the difference. Perhaps there is more than one thing at play here.
     
  8. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    It certainly is possible but for 12 days?
     
  9. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I'll check the tire pressure.

    Tires were replaced on April 23. Charging problems started April 17.
     
    ClarityDoc likes this.
  10. DucRider

    DucRider Active Member

    I agree with eMotoWerks that the issue is car and not EVSE related.

    Given that the charging pattern change and range decrease occurred at the same time and have been consistent since, I think a battery test is in order. Send me a PM if your dealer gives any pushback and I'll give you a contact at American Honda.
     
    ClarityDoc likes this.
  11. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Thank you. I may have to take you up on that.
     
  12. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    That's about a 4% loss.

    That's about an 8% loss.

    Different tires and different vehicles but yield the same result (a loss in range) but at different amounts. The EVSE farts (technical term) could be contributing to some of that figure too.

    When I changed out the expensive OEM "eco" tires on our OutBack at 60,000 miles, I noted a whopping 9% loss in fuel economy on the cheaper, quieter and more comfortable replacements. OUCH! Any potential savings in the purchase costs quickly evaporated. :(
     
  13. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I disconnected the 12V battery for 15 minutes today. The next charge to 100% only came to a 38 EV mile estimate. Ambient temperature was 75F. I'm very interested in what Honda finds out next week.
     
    Edward Dries likes this.
  14. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    Was that with the 240v or the OEM 120v?

    If you have the time, take a drive with a mix of medium-high (45-65mph) speeds and see how far you make it on that "tank". Try to do a round trip drive to negate wind or elevation variables.
     
  15. MPower

    MPower Well-Known Member

    Of course, that disconnect made the Clarity lose its mind so who knows where the 38 miles came from. Is that just a number the Clarity picked from its ... algorithm?
     
  16. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Subsequent charge results in 38 EV mile estimate.
     
  17. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    I am a JuiceBox 32 Pro user. I looked back through my logs and all that I see are 'good' charging curves like the first one shown. My suggestion is to look carefully at the 240V line voltage during one of these 'bad' charge cycles. I am suspicious that your line voltage is varying (either because the line itself is varying or because you have a marginal connection, bad circuit breaker, or similar). The JuiceBox does not 'log' the line voltage, but it shows it live on a gauge (I access it with the web page, rather than the App). My line voltage is very solidly 240, and during the main stretch of charge (before tapering off), I always have 30 Amps, and 7.2 kW. It looks like you may not be achieving these nominal levels even when in the flat zone.

    I agree with JuiceBox that this is unlikely to be the EVSE, but... The 240V line integrity is a critical part of the EVSE / vehicle charging system and could cause weird anomalies like this.
     
    Mark W likes this.
  18. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing jdonalds. The main piece of information to me is the jagged log from the juicebox. Others are saying that they don't see this. The change of tires is an interesting subject, and you may be losing more milage from the tire change than you might have expected, but as you said, the tire change happened AFTER the charging anomolies started. Do you know what you had the tire pressure at before and after the change of tires? I have heard from others on EV forums where changes of tires caused an almost 10% difference in milage.

    My one suggestion would be that when you talk to Honda, that you focus on the charging anomilies and the actual EV milage drop rather than what the GOM shows. Everyone's reaction, including Honda, is going to be to not put too much stock in that GOM figure, it's just an estimate.

    MxFixit poses an interesting theory above. Sounds plausible to me. Is there any way for you to charge somewhere else other than your house where you would be able to tell whether those charging anomolies happen?

    I have been surprised with our Clarity that with warmer weather (50s - 60s F), that I have not noticed bigger increases in my EV range. GOM and actual miles seem to be around 42. Anyway, I hope you find an answer to your issues, but I'm guessing Honda will not be much help. Good luck and keep us posted.
     
  19. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    We have been pleasantly surprised with the range increase in warmer weather. We bought the car in November, and all through the winter we were getting in the low 40's with an occasional upper 30's. Now that spring has sprung, we are consistently in the mid 50's.
     
  20. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    @jdonalds, I am not an EE (and don’t even play one on TV) but I’ll spitball here and throw out some WAGs.

    Logically, the problem is either in your EVSE, your car, or the grid. And by grid, I mean anywhere between your JB EVSE and transformer supplying your house. So how do you narrow it down to which one of the three is the culprit?

    Power line fluctuations could well be the problem but then why does it always happen towards the end of your charging cycle and not randomly over one cycle and between cycles? That observation tends to make me look at the JuiceBox. Could it be doing something anomalous towards the end of the charge cycle like hearing up enough to make a component fail?
    Can you program the JB to charge at a much lower rate to see if the spikes go away? That might help determine if the problem is in the JB.

    Is your JB the plug in kind and not hard wired? If so, if you can find a neighbor or RV park with the right receptacle, then you could try charging with it away from home. That might rule out grid problems at your house.
    Even better would be if you could get a different JB to plug in at your house and charge the Clarity. That would really diagnose things but may not be practical. Perhaps you can find a local EV group to ask around.

    And finally, I’ll suggest what would be a unicorn hunt in my area but might work for you. Can you find someone close by with a Clarity that would be willing to charge at your house? Then if there are no spikes that might narrow it down to your particular Clarity.

    I hope you find the source of your problem. I know problems like this can be quite vexing because the larger the number of variables, the harder it is to solve the equation.

    PS: I don’t think your external grid is the problem since the spike events are not random, but then I admit I don’t know squat about electricity. So maybe your should contact your POCO and ask them to check your incoming power. We had a problem at my last house where whenever several neighbors’ AC units started up at the same time that we would get lights briefly dimming. Our POCO investigated and upgraded the transformer we shared. They said it was getting old and to prevent reoccurrence, they installed a larger one.
     

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