Charging anomaly

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by jdonalds, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Over the past few days, while expecting EV Range estimates to be above 47 miles, our EV Range estimate has fallen to 39-41. I tried driving very gingerly but things didn't improve. Then I noticed this. We have a JuiceBox Pro 40.

    Here is a normal charge graph from 10 days ago. It shows a smooth transition from full charge rate to a slope to zero.

    But the following chart shows what has been going on for the past 10 days or so. Full charge but then a jagged charge cycle that results in less than a full charge. Has anyone seen this before?

    There was nothing unique during the past 10 days. The temperature range is 70-85 or so. The car was not running climate operations while charging.

    I don't know if the problem is with the JuiceBox or the Clarity at this point. If it persists after a charge today I'll contact eMotorWerks first. That should be more fruitful than trying to get Honda involved.

    I did the only thing I thought I could do which is to unplug the JuiceBox from the 220V source for 15 seconds, then plug it back in. I just did that last night so the car hasn't gone through a charge cycle since then.
  2. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    I also have a JuiceBox, and observe the same charge profile as in your first image. I have never seen anything like the second image, but I've only charged when temps have been cool, 40s and 50s, so I have no experience (yet) in the 70-85 range.
  3. Groves Cooke

    Groves Cooke Active Member

    If you still have the 110 EVSE that comes with the car you could plug that in overnight and see what level of charge you get. That might eliminate your 220 EVSE as the problem.
  4. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    On my Charge Point, all I have every seen is the flat smooth charging at a reported 7.1 kWh and then the transition to end with the charge tapering off. However the CP only reports every 5 min it may miss a transient.
    Have you had all the SBs done? Especially the one on over sensitivity to power fluctuations, 18-097?

    The problem is probably either in the JB or the car since you get a clean graph at the beginning which suggests it’s not a grid problem if it is consistently doing this at only the end

    May be worth checking the connections at car and handle, especially the low voltage ones that handle communications between car and EVSE. Also try charging with the OEM 12 Amp EVSE and see if it charges normally. That might help narrow it down to the JB. And a trip to the dealer to see if any diagnostic codes are stored might reveal something, or not.

    I hope the JB or cord/handle Is the problem since that will cheaper and less time consuming to fix. And I’ll try to refrain from saying “Should have bought a CP” which isn’t very helpful but it just slipped out. (I’ll put my bad texting thumbs in timeout)
    Best wishes; were all pulling for you.
    ClarityDoc likes this.
  5. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Good suggestion. Thanks.
  6. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Thanks Ken. Good suggestion to check the connections. It's charging at the moment so when it is done I'll look at the connection.
  7. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I checked the connections. They are as clean as new. The car is garaged so keeps pretty clean.

    I let the 220V JuiceBox charge complete (it's so fast isn't it) which reached 46 miles of EV Range. But the graph shows it is still not right. I drove around the neighborhood to burn off some charge, then plugged it into 120V to let it charge. These were good suggestions.

    As the car is charging with 120V I unplugged the JuiceBox from 220V and will let it sit overnight to see if a long reset will help. I should know soon if the problem is with the car or the JuiceBox.
  8. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Sadly the 110V charge didn't give me any more information. The last 220V charge, with a messed up graph, achieved 46 miles of EV range. The 110V only reached 45 miles of EV Range. If anything that tells me the problem is with the car, not the charge station.

    I've sent the two screen snapshots to eMotorWerks.
  9. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    I don't believe using the guess-o-meter's EV range estimate is an accurate method of determining your battery's SoC because it depends on the results of previous trips. The High Voltage Battery Charge Level Gauge or the HondaLink app are the only read-outs for the battery's SoC other than an OBDII device or a Honda service department's computer.
  10. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    What is the SOC reported on the Honda Link app after charging on each EVSE? That might help figure out if it’s completing the charge.
  11. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    In all cases it says it has charged to 100% But the EV estimate is not only low, but I've verified it is reporting a value consistent with actual EV driving range.
  12. DucRider

    DucRider Well-Known Member

    Anambient of 80-85 is very likely to trigger battery conditioning while charging as well as a reduced charge rate. Both are consistent with the second graph you posted. The car is working as designed to keep the battery temps in a range that will help prevent degradation.

    And the estimated range is just that (and will vary with temps, recent driving behavior, etc).
  13. Candice

    Candice Active Member

    @jdonalds is one of the "OG" posters on the forum and has had the car longer than most so I am sure he has experienced all possible variations of temperature, heating, cooling etc. I know he follows his patterns closely so when he says there is no explanation, there probably isn't an obvious one.

    The concern is not how he got to the full charge but why the full charge dropped in range from 47+ to 40ish. Have you changed the tires, rotated the tires, checked the psi? Maybe the battery capacity needs to be checked. Have you driven with the windows open to affect range?

    Just throwing stuff out there as a non-mechanically inclined person since I know you are very knowledgeable about most Clarity things.
  14. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I did change tires but I would expect a 2 mile degredation due to tires, not 10 miles. I also believe the new tires are low rolling resistance. Also a change of tires should not have an impact on the charge graph while the car is sitting in the garage charging.

    I am aware of the impact of a previous trip on EV Range estimate and know it is a loose estimate. So for the last 3 or 4 trips I've driven quite like the old man I am, which by the way is fairly normal for me to drive that way. It drives my wife crazy sometimes. Even with my careful minimum power draw, which did push the range estimate up, it is still exhibiting lower than expected range, and the ragged charge graph.

    I left the JuiceBox Pro 40 unplugged from 220V (and the car) overnight. It's charging now so I'll see what the graph looks like.

    Below is a screenshot from August of 2018, no doubt a 100+ degree day here in Redding CA. The chart is the same as hundreds of other charts which I consider to be normal. It does not appear to be heat related.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  15. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Latest charge, following the JuiceBox being unplugged all night as the only thing I have control over. The ambient temperature was about 72 degrees F. Results were an EV Range estimate of 43 miles - more like winter behavior. I'm waiting for a response from eMotorWerks. I suspect I'm going to have to deal with Honda on this issue.
  16. megreyhair

    megreyhair Active Member

    Maybe there was a voltage fluctuation during your charging time that caused the drop in kwH? Would love to see voltage graph for that same time period
  17. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Could be but it has been happening for 12 days and nights now.
  18. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    JuiceBox response:

    Hi John,

    Thank you for the inquiry. The first thing I'd like to note is that by default, the JuiceBox provides all energy available to a car whenever it is plugged into the car's port. That is, basically, your situation right now - you have no Time of Use, no limits preset, nothing that could stop or regulate the charge from the JuiceBox's side.

    It's the car's onboard charger that initiates the charging process and controls the charging rate. To be honest, both your charts seem pretty normal to me, the little wavering in the end of a charging session is usually indicative of a car doing some battery maintaining procedures.

    I went ahead and checked your logs, and a dozen of your most recent charging sessions, as well as the one from 4/17 you refer to as normal full charge. From what I see, there is absolutely nothing abnormal in them, no errors, no inconsistencies, the JuiceBox provides 32A all along, and the car takes just how much it needs.

    I have a guess on why your Clarity shows a different range now. The mileage on your car that shows range is what we in the industry call a GOM, or Guess-o-Meter. That is because the mileage, or range, is determined by a few different factors:

    • How did you drive your last trip, was it uphill, downhill, really hot, or really cold?
      • Cold temperatures and driving fast will lower the number. This does not mean you cannot drive further, but only a range estimate based on the parameters of the last trip.

    The only number that you should be looking at is the battery percentage. If your car is fully charged, then it is fully charged. Mileage estimates on the EV are just that, and not truly accurate.

    As for why your car is now doing the wavering during the session, I would recommend you check the Honda app for any kind of additional settings that might be preset, and/or the car owner manual for battery functioning description.

    Another thing to try is to set the EVSE Efficiency on the JuiceBox back to 92% and see if it helps.

    I hope this makes sense. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

    I'm well aware of normal behavior for this car. Like many who drive to work we have repeatable weekday patterns even though we are retired. We drive our son 25 miles round trip to drop him off at school, then 25 miles again to pick him up at the end of the school day. Our city has very light traffic so the daily pattern does not vary much. I appreciate the comments from JuiceBox about the GOM but again I'm quite familiar with the rough estimate. I almost always beat the estimate because I drive like the 72 year old man I am, and so does my wife drive efficiently.

    Clearly something is wrong. There are no charts prior to April 17 that show that saw-tooth behavior. With the mild temperatures we should be seeing GOM estimates of 48-52, not 40 to 46.

    I'm going to schedule a visit with Honda next. Sadly I don't think most Honda dealers have a clue about the Clarity. They will have to rely on textbook procedures which may not address this issue.
    ClarityDoc likes this.
  19. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    I was getting longer EV range in 50-degree temperatures with low-rolling resistance snow tires than you are in Redding in the 70's, so I doubt the tires are the problem. Unfortunately, when Honda discovers you switched to different tires, they will likely seize on THAT as reason your EV range is abnormally limited.
    jdonalds likes this.
  20. Edward Dries

    Edward Dries New Member

    @jdonalds, maybe you should try wiping the system with the "12v battery unhook" to see if a computer reset helps. I mention this because of the statement Juicebox made "It's the car's onboard charger that initiates the charging process and controls the charging rate".
    Might be a software gremlin causing the issue.

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