Clarity Issues

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by jdonalds, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. bkniceley

    bkniceley New Member

  2. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Active Member

    This recall is for the Fuel Cell version of the Clarity, only leased in California. I can't state that the power loss and engine revving isn't a real issue in some of the Clarity PHEVs sold, but can tell you that for mine, that I have never had anything close to issues of this type. I think the vast majority that post regularly here would echo those sentiments. I do believe that if you let the battery completely discharge and then need significant power from the car to climb a hill or accelerate strongly, that the car may lack the power from the internal combustion engine to perform comfortably. Honda foresaw this need with the HV Charge mode to recharge the battery (if it was in a low charge state) in preparation for large hills or grades where both battery and internal combustion power combined would be needed. Most of us that post here are likely to hold our battery in reserve and drive on gas on trips where the internal combustion engine is going to be needed and then use the battery on the very last part of the trip to a location where charging is available. So the predominant advice on best performance of this car is to use the internal combustion engine with the battery mostly charged. This allows the battery and the internal combustion engine to work together for maximum horsepower and torque when needed. I love the Clarity and wouldn't trade it for anything else in the marketplace at anywhere near the same cost point. I think that you will find most here are very happy with the Clarity as well. I will admit, though, that the Clarity may not be the best car if most of your driving is long highway trips, especially across mountain ranges. To me, it is a phenomenal car for daily commutes of less than 50 miles, and occasional longer trips where the gas engine can work with the battery. My longest road trip is about 400 miles so far, but it did very well with that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  3. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    Thanks Yannick for posting the videos here. After watching them, I agree completely with what Lex wrote about them. They all depict engine behavior that others have discussed here before. The behavior would seem very wrong for anyone that does not understand how the car functions, but I think Lex's explanations summarize what we have discussed here before. The disconnect between engine revving and accelerator pressure is very hard to understand and get used to.
     
  4. Johngalt6146

    Johngalt6146 Active Member

    Just for the record, I have now had my Clarity for 14 months and 4200 miles with zero problems. It is a very quiet, roomy and luxurious car (my experience base is Lexus, Infiniti and Caddy). I love the feeling of quiet acceleration and power. I'm sure the problem mentioned is real, but do not know what % of cars it affects.
     
    Tomrl, Domenick and jdonalds like this.
  5. Yannick

    Yannick Member

    Before I put explanations about my test drive with the Honda tech I have a couple questions for everyone who drives a Clarity plug in hybrid:
    - Anyone having the engine randomly turning on while on EV and not accelerating pass the click:
    - Before you purchased, where you ever told by dealerships or sales people that the car would do this (and also go into high revs randomly):
    - Would you have purchased the vehicle knowing it would do these:

    If you do not feel comfortable answering on the forum please send your answers to yannicktruchi@verizon.net
    Thank you in advance for answering.
     
  6. MPower

    MPower Active Member

    Anyone having the engine randomly turning on while on EV and not accelerating pass the click:

    Yes, the Clarity behaves in this respect just like my 2012 Prius Plugin. It runs the ICE when it needs to for its own purposes. In my Prius it would run to heat or coll the battery and keep it at whatever temperature it deemed appropriate and it ran to heat the cabin, and it ran at other times for reasons I never identified in 6 years of ownership. With the Clarity which I have only owned for 4 months, I am slowly begining to identify the things that will cause the ICE to come on.

    - Before you purchased, where you ever told by dealerships or sales people that the car would do this (and also go into high revs randomly):
    - Would you have purchased the vehicle knowing it would do these:

    Heck, when I bought my Clarity I knew more about how it worked than the salesman (who was on vacation when the sent the sales staff to Clarity school), but he was very modest and did not pretend that he knew more than he did.

    I would have purchased the car which is the fanciest car I have ever owned since my old car did the same type of thing and roared whenever it had high power demands such as steep hills at interstate speeds.

    I see from other threads on this forum, that people have different expectations depending on their previous automotive experiences and expectations. People like me who come from noisy dinky cars and just use the car as basic transportation not as thrilling feel we have reached nirvana.

    People whose previous cars were quiet luxury vehicles or sporty or . . . and are "drivers" may be disappointed that the reving sound sounds from the ICE are louder than expected and do not directly relate to their pressure on the accelerator.
     
    Dan Albrich, 4sallypat and Yannick like this.
  7. LAF

    LAF Active Member

    I have had the car since Dec 2017 (14,000 miles). I am not away of that happening unless there is less than 3 miles left in EV miles.
     
    Yannick likes this.
  8. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    - Anyone having the engine randomly turning on while on EV and not accelerating pass the click:
    I'm not sure about this. Usually, when the engine comes on I either have no EV miles left or am in HV mode. I suspect that maybe it has happened while in EV, but can't be sure.

    - Before you purchased, where you ever told by dealerships or sales people that the car would do this (and also go into high revs randomly):
    No. The sales person didn't know much about the car. I had done research and knew MUCH more about the car than the salesperson did. I knew that the engine revs would not match with the accelerator pressure like most cars, but was NOT expecting the small number of cases where the HIGH revving occurs. That is bothersome.

    - Would you have purchased the vehicle knowing it would do these: Yes. I certainly don't enjoy the engine revving, but I understand (mostly) why it happens. But the high revving happens so infrequently that it doesn't bother me much.

    Yannick - You're obviously is a tough spot. The revving is not acceptable to you. Do the explanations that you have read about why it happens help at all? I would think it might be a little better if you understand that what is happening is happening for a reason, and is not just a straight defect. That's not to say that it will solve the issue for you. If the revving still bothers you, then no explanation helps. Many things add up to how the driving experience is for someone, and it's not enjoyable driving a car does things you are not happy with. I hope you can get something worked out with them.

    This brings up a tough issue regarding cars that qualify for big government rebates. Normally, in a situation like this, I would think a dealer would want to handle the situation with a customer that is not satisfied with their car by doing a refund, or swapping out another model, with it being more straight forward. The problem with these cars, and any that qualify for a $7,500 federal rebate, (and in some states an additional rebate) is that once a car is purchased, even if it's returned, it is not then eligible for the next purchaser to get that rebate. So that car immediately loses at least $7,500 of value from the transaction.
     
  9. Groves Cooke

    Groves Cooke Member

    "Before I put explanations about my test drive with the Honda tech I have a couple questions for everyone who drives a Clarity plug in hybrid:
    - Anyone having the engine randomly turning on while on EV and not accelerating pass the click:"
    Yes
    "- Before you purchased, where you ever told by dealerships or sales people that the car would do this (and also go into high revs randomly):"
    No. But if you read the manual it states that this will happen. Plus I have a cousin who owns a Volt. This happens in his car also.
     
  10. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    Page 13 of owners manual below. System check may run the engine even with EV light on. The issue is if sales people know anything about this or can demonstrate it.


    "Auto Engine Stop/Start
    The car will select the appropriate source of power depending on the drive mode you select.
    As a result, the engine will automatically start or stop as needed to either charge the battery or provide supplemental power.
    Under certain circumstances, the engine may turn on or, if it is already on, it may not turn off.
    ● You are going uphill or accelerating aggressively.
    ● The climate control system is in heavy use.
    ● The Ambient temperature is too hot or too cold.
    ● The High Voltage Battery state of charge is very low.
    ● The vehicle is running a system check.
    System Check
    When the engine initially starts (between the time the POWER button is turned on and turned off), the vehicle conducts a system check.
    ● While the check is being conducted, the engine may periodically turn on and off. This, however, is normal.
    ● The curved blue line in the POWER/CHARGE Gauge will not appear during the system check (EV indicator may still turn on).
    ● Once the engine starts, it will continue to run until the system reaches operating temperature.
    The curved blue line in the POWER/CHARGE Gauge will reappear once the system check is completed."
     
  11. Yannick

    Yannick Member

    Thank you for your answer.
    My car does the high revs every time I go up a hill (with absolutely no power) or if I am on HV charge. Also the engine turns on constantly while driving normally with no crazy accelerations and stays on unless you shut the car off. Last month on a stretch of 30 miles flat I had to pull over 14 times! I was furious. On top of that I have a multitude of electronic issues (dash going black, radio dial not working, HV range off by 10 to 20 miles).
    After I threatened the dealership they finally sent the tech guy, we tested my car and a new one that one night and day compared to mine . Both did the high revs but the new one did not lose power, was way more quieter than mine and engine did not turn on while on EV. Yet Honda still doesn't want to take my car for longer test and says that both cars where identical and since I was the one driving they could not see the difference!
    They also had the guts to say: If the salesman had explained better about the car you would have never purchased it. Nobody in his right mind would purchase a car that is presented as "you can drive on pure electric up to 47 miles" (of course without pushing the pedal pass the click) but BTW sometimes the engine turns on and will stay on forever, and when you go up hills or use HV charge your car will sound like you are stuck in first gear wide open and you will have no power. People would run out of the dealerships if they were told this.
    Honda advertises the car as pure electric for up to 47 miles, look at the website it says that on 4 different pages. So is it a false advertising issue now?
    I am aware that Honda is doing everything they can to ignore the issue, heck the day before the test drive I had to drive 20 miles to leave my car in front of the dealership as they refused that I drop the car off to charge it overnight and show them that the engine turns on when battery is full + issues when car is cold. How is that for service?
    So now Honda is supposedly reviewing the list of 18 issues I gave them, the 20 videos and photos that I had sent to the dealership and that of course was never sent to Honda when they had told me that they did. Most likely they are going to deny everything like they have done for the last 8 months and I will be screwed unless I sue them with also little chances to win. How am I going to prove the difference when after showing them they still deny?
    Yet I get criticized for posting that I am mad at Honda.
    One thing for sure is that after being a big fan I will never ever purchase their product. They treated me like dirt and it is completely unacceptable. Yet they advertise that they are helpful, a complete joke.
     
  12. Yannick

    Yannick Member

    I agree with you and thank you for the info but in general you do not see the owners manual before purchasing unless you already know about an issue. But then again if you know about the issue you don't buy the car. I knew more about the car before my first test drive, the 2 cars I test drove before purchase did not have the issues I am experiencing.
     
  13. MPower

    MPower Active Member

    Yanick - sounds like you have a really horrible dealership. These threads seem to show that dealerships run from the really helpful and obliging to the obstructionist to the downright scammy.

    I can generally drive on all electric in ECON mode as long as I have a charge. The ICE comes on only when it is really cold to heat the battery and or the cabin if I have the heater on, but that is in the 10sF or below. I have never used the accelerator passed the click point. (It would take a special effort because my legs are too short and I am not an aggressive driver.)

    I can drive all around the area near my home which has a lot of steep hills without the ICE coming on.
     
  14. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    With computer controlled drive systems, the range of response can be difficult to see on a test drive without planning a list of things to check (how it responds at full throttle, how it cruises at different speeds, etc..).

    I will point out that the window stickers do show some important detail, but again most sales don't know how to explain.

    Clarity window sticker 0 to 47 electric + gas miles
    https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.n...12/25344706_10156098300795739_817344548_o.jpg

    Fusion Energi 0 to 21 electric + gas miles
    https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.n...2016/05/2017-fusion-energi-window-sticker.jpg

    Prius Prime 0 to 25 electric + gas miles
    https://attachments.priuschat.com/attachment-files/2017/05/125008_Lbl38531.png

    BMW i3 Rex 72 electric miles, THEN gas miles
    https://images.hgmsites.net/med/201...-sticker-image-tom-moloughney_100467754_m.jpg

    The first 3 stickers show the vehicle can combine electric and gas for the initial range. The i3 Rex and Volt, being range extender designs may use all electric first, but that accounts for the higher cost.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  15. Yannick

    Yannick Member

    Thank you that is very helpful. Glad you have a Clarity that works properly.
    Would you be so kind to email me at yannicktruchi@verizon.net
    Thanks
     
  16. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    "My car does the high revs every time I go up a hill (with absolutely no power) or if I am on HV charge." - What do you mean EXACTLY when you say "with absolutely no power"?

    "Also the engine turns on constantly while driving normally with no crazy accelerations and stays on unless you shut the car off. Last month on a stretch of 30 miles flat I had to pull over 14 times!" - Why would you pull over to shut the car off? I understand that you don't like the fact that the engine runs when you don't think it should. But why would you continue to fight what the car is doing? I can agree that it seems that the engine runs sometimes when I don't think it should, and I don't like it, but turning off the car seems fruitless.

    "On top of that I have a multitude of electronic issues (dash going black, radio dial not working, HV range off by 10 to 20 miles" - If the dash is going black, and the radio dial is not working, there is certainly no justifiable reason for that. That would indicate to me that your car has some kind of electrical issues. Maybe those electrical problems contribute to your engine revving more that it does for most of us. As far as the HV range being off by 10 to 20 miles, what are you basing that on? How can you possibly calculate that? The HV range is just an estimate, as is mileage remaining figures in any other car.
     
  17. Yannick

    Yannick Member

    1) 70 mph to 36 mph on freeway in matter of seconds. Another time 5 mph going up a small hill. Or if I’m going up Kanan Rd in Malibu (long 1 mile hill) when it starts revving I drop to 40 mph even though I’m pushing hard in the pedal
    2) because it happens constantly and the engine never turns off
    Sometimes I stop a couple times and then it doesn’t do it anymore. My commute is 32 miles, I don’t see the point to have the engine revving at around 4000 rpm when my battery is full. What’s the point of having EV mode?
    3) yes even the sales manager of dealership says they need to change the mother board. Honda won’t do anything unless I prove to them, bla-bla-bla, provided 20 videos, they still deny.
    Range display when battery is full or once I get to work, same drive everyday. I go HV, come back EV to minimize issues and irritation. Sometimes i get there and still 20 miles, sometimes 40
    Most times it’s 30 to 32
    Y
     
  18. MPower

    MPower Active Member

    Whoa, @Yannick. I did not realize that you were in Malibu. What seemed quasi normal for Vermont and on my trip to New Hampshire, because of the low temperatures, seems completely abnormal for the temperatures you are driving with. We need more input from the all the members in Lotus Land. Even with the cold temperatures, I have never experienced the loss of power you describe.

    I have only once heard what I believe to be the angry bees, which was driving uphill in HV with temps in 10-20sF at 72 mph on the interstate with 3 people in the car and the heaters blazing. There was no loss of speed from the car, but I myself chose to reduce the speed to 68 mph to quiet the engine noise and we continued to climb the White Mountains without further angry bees or any other unusual behavior. Had at least a half full better. There was no loss of power. The car would have roared on above 70F if I had not chosen to reduce speed.

    We have some steep hills here in VT that I regularly climb in EV and I have never had any trouble maintaining speed, generally I am going town speeds, but tomorrow I have to go to a number of places that I can try to challenge the car on EV at higher speeds up hill. The temperature here is predicted to be 23-28 in the day time. Will report back.

    Your description of your loss of power incidents does seem to suggest that something is really out of wack with your car. Have you tried disconnecting and reconnecting the 12v battery (or asking the dealer to do it)? Some members have reported some success after trying this. Evidently it reboots the car's computer. (This is not to be confused with rebooting the head unit which is done with a long press on the audio power button.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  19. Groves Cooke

    Groves Cooke Member

    @Yannick. Have you tried to reboot the car? Have you considered going to another dealer?
     
  20. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    One other poster recently rebooted the car, by disconnecting the 12 v battery and found a different response from the vehicle. I suspect software changes may not take effect without that. Or it could be a sensor issue.
     

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