How to encourage the mass market into EV's

Agreed! I believe that the car industry has only just tiptoed around implementation of vehicle tech, particularly in terms of user interface. EVs provide the opportunity for a real sea change in this regard.

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Based on what I’ve read, sounds like Tesla does this already. My ID.4 doesn’t have a similar level of sophistication in its onboard navigation, so I use a program called A Better Route Planner to calculate my trips. It does take all my car ‘s capabilities and even traffic and weather conditions to plan out the trip.

For the overwhelming majority of people, the daily driving chores and commute to work will generally be accommodated by having some kind of home charging solution. Navigation software and route plans are not necessary.


For me it’s less a case of range anxiety than it is the lack of available chargers with enough power to make the charging stops shorter. We’ve all become quite used to a 10 minute fill up for ICE cars, but of course today we can’t necessarily do that with EVs. I can charge my VW in about 40 minutes with a high speed DCFC, and that makes a great bio break & coffee stop.

 

The software routing is nice and makes long trips hassle free but the vast majority of cars don’t have anything like this and people get around just fine.

What’s lacking is infrastructure and charge times.

I think in the interim Tesla’s system is the best, easiest way to travel in an electric car.

 

I disagree, I think the the biggest blockage is many people's inability to charge at home, either because they're in multi-resident buildings or they're renting and can't have one installed. It's related to range anxiety, but is at a more fundamental level i.e. you'll have range anxiety if you can't plug your car in at home and wake up to a full battery. It's particularly true for city dwellers (more likely to live in those circumstances), although cities are where EVs shine, in my opinion.

 

First, stop with the app based business model for charging
Ridiculous, they are not selling you electricity, they are selling your information
Every charging station should take a credit card, period

Second, you know those little air pumps outside gas stations and convenience stores that charge you 50 cents to fill up your tires? They suck right? Until you actually need one. Why are there not mini emergency charging stations popping up? What would you pay for 10 miles of range if you totally screwed the pooch and got stuck out in podunk with 1 percent battery? OR if you are a city dweller and charge once a month and someone stole your extension cord
Third, I would gladly trade 2 seconds added to my 0-60 for whatever range the smaller motor and smaller controller etc etc would gain me. My Kia accelerates faster than many 25 year old sports cars, it isn't necessary.
Colin Chapman of Lotus Cars had a concept called 'simplify and add lightness' The basics are if you start with an engine that weighs half of what your competition is using, then you need less structure to hold it up. Then you need less suspension to hold that up. Then you need smaller tires to run it on, and smaller brakes to stop it.

IMHO EV makers need to think this way. Tesla started it all by making silly fast cars, but most people, and especially those who prefer an EV, could easily live with an 8+ second 0-60. Like a 10 year old camry or accord. Hell my 1984 Accord took nearly 12 seconds by the numbers and it never felt slow[and I have owned slooow and fast cars]
I think if you used a phone app to track your cars performance you would be surprised at how rarely you used its potential. Yet you haul that gear around every day.

 

The MINI Cooper SE navigation tells you if you can't reach your destination and suggests nearby EVSEs on your route, letting you easily add an intermediate destination. It's not perfect, but it is a step in the right direction.

Can't that be accomplished by finding a 120 V outlet somewhere? Almost every building has working electricity with a standard outlet. While high availability of Level 2 would be much preferred, the electrical infrastructure is already there for emergency charging. I carry my Level 1 EVSE with me for just that reason. Sure the charge rate is slow, but is it any worse than an ICE driver having to hike a mile or two to get a canister of fuel, or wait for AAA to show up?

 

No routing software that I’ve seen can tell in real-time how many miles are left before requiring a fill up or a recharge. You want what doesn’t even exist for ICE cars today. If you want total autonomous operation, take a bus.

And if you subscribe, ABRP does track traffic and elevation changes and weather and integrates with car play to display it on the infotainment system.


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That’s kinda my point. Much more infrastructure and faster charge times. ICE drivers don’t worry because they can go to a local station and fill up quickly. If tech and infrastructure catch up then it becomes a non-issue.

I’m not sure I was clear. What I’m trying to say the software becomes unnecessary if infrastructure and charge times come close to what is available for combustion vehicles.

Otherwise Tesla is the only one who’s got the software.

 

You're incorrect, ABRP does exactly that in real time. A Tesla can be hooked up directly to ABRP, and every other ev can be with an obd2 dongle and an app on your phone. Is it easy to set up? No, but it is available.

However I totally agree that this should be standard in EVERY EV.

 

Many people have no interest in having to go begging for fuel. THis is part of range anxiety, what hoops am I going to have to jump through, what embarrassment to I have to endure to fuel my vehicle? How about none thank you very much? I already made a mistake by being in this situation, do not compound it by making me knock on a door, or ask a smirking convenience store clerk if I can use there plug. This is exactly what range anxiety is. We live in a wealthy society with cell phones, it is rare that you will actually be stranded.

 

You're correct. This is a business opportunity and the exact reason why 7-eleven is investing a lot of money into installing DC quick chargers at some (unfortunately only in a few states I understand) locations.

As a matter of fact when we owned our business 4 years ago I was about to install a L2 charger to "lure" in customers. I don't understand why not more businesses do that.

 

I agree with what Puppethead is saying here. Even though gas stations are plentiful. Electric distribution infrastructure is far more robust and running over our heads or below are feet. In an emergency situation it shouldn't be too difficult to find a 110 15amp outlet somewhere. It will be great to have more Level 2 and Level 3 options available, but Level 1 charging, albeit slow, is available almost everywhere.

 

I feel it is the lack of variety of models, no coupe, no convertibles, van's just suvs/crossovers, trucks in the future as well as prices $10,000 plus more than the ICE versions.

Unless you are type to do road trips, do not understand the range anxiety issues and why people obsess about only being able to charge to 80% instead of 90/100%

Dan

 

I understand your point but for our current situation of having 2 ICE vehicles in the family already what was so appealing about our 2022 Mini Cooper SE was having our cake and eating it to. We get a fun, quick and just a blast to drive car and get to save money on gas AND save the environment. For us the 125 miles of range does not matter being an extra car. Trust me I understand I’m lucky to have this luxury. But I’m also a car guy and I love driving a fun car. I would not trade any amount of fun or acceleration for an extra 50 miles. If that was important I would’ve bought a different EV.

Just my humble opinion.



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You said it best "
But I’m also a car guy and I love driving a fun car. I would not trade any amount of fun or acceleration for an extra 50 miles. "

For some ENirous said "
could easily live with an 8+ second 0-60. Like a 10 year old camry or accord. Hell my 1984 Accord took nearly 12 seconds by the numbers " , this be unacceptable.

So far the only interesting EV's so far is the Mini Cooper SE, Tesla Model 3, Mazda MX30 as this seem more for those who enjoy driving instead of getting A to B with boring Suvs/Crossovers type EV's.

Dan

 

See what you guys are doing?

Interesting EV

The whole point here is practical not interesting
IT is not what 'you' want but what the mass consumer wants

Mass consumers do not buy Miatas, they buy Camrys.
Now sports cars may help sell regular cars, the 'halo effect' but the majority of cars sold are not performance models.

EVs have some historical stereotypes to overcome. Tesla knew that. It is not a bad thing ot have high performance EVs, but mass adoption relies on the vehicle do the things a consumer demands, and 'worry' fails that basic test.

It is easy to say a huge mileage range is required, but that plays into the hands of EV opponents, who will continue to move the goalposts.

Well, sure it can go 600 miles on a charge and recharge in 5 minutes, but still..............