Tesla lives another day and leaves shorts crying.

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by marshall, May 4, 2019.

  1. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    If you have even a smidgen of common sense, why would you consider for even a moment buying a car from a company which you keep saying will be bankrupt soon?

    It's almost like you don't really believe what you keep saying...
    :rolleyes:
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

  3. marshall

    marshall Active Member

    You know they are starting to lease them now.

    However, I'm still waited to read that he finally bought the or leased an electric Jaguar.
     
  4. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I hope this isn't arguing pointlessly, but is there something I'm missing here?

    The reason people are reluctant to buy from a new and untested car maker is because if you buy one of their cars and the company goes out of business, you'll be stuck with a legacy vehicle and no place to get it serviced. If you just lease and don't buy then I suppose that would limit the risk to just those months and years when the lease was active, but I don't see that it actually solves the problem.

    If Mr. Green honestly thinks Tesla is in serious risk of going out of business within the next three years or less, then why in the world would he consider buying (or leasing) a Tesla car? Of course, the answer is... he doesn't honestly think that.

     
  5. marshall

    marshall Active Member

    What I want to know is where is his electric Jaguar? He needs it!!! He'll get stuck in the muck at the job site with a Tesla.
     
  6. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    The numbers appear to paint a different picture and can speak for themselves. The data is shown below. Even including Europe and US, they have sold only 6883 cars in 2018. There numbers in 2019 are not good either, though they did sell about 1715 cars in March 2019, in the US and Europe. Their European numbers in January and February were down from December 2018 by a large margin.

    I do not know if it is a production issue or demand issue, but these numbers are not confidence building. At least for now, they do not show that I-Pace can taken on Tesla S/X.

    This is the I-Pace sales data in Europe
    http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/jaguar/jaguar-i-pace/
    covering the following countries
    Car sales statistics are from the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland. Sources: Manufacturers, ANDC, JATO Dynamics.
    upload_2019-5-12_18-27-26.png

    This is the I-Pace Sales in the US

    upload_2019-5-12_18-26-34.png
     
  7. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

  8. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

  9. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    If the CEO and CFO are going to be scrutinizing every expense, it will lead to some bad decisions. I have seen this in companies where I consult with and personally experienced this. This is a knee jerk reaction and will not work. I know it sounds nice, but in my experience (and I have personal horror stories) it will affect morale and not save very much.
     
  10. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    That's logically impossible. If things were as dire as you keep claiming to believe, then Tesla would have collapsed years ago.

    Last I looked, Tesla has been growing its production quite strongly every year since 2012! :cool:

    Keep going Tesla!
     
  11. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    This is a terrible plan on the part of Elon and the Tesla management team, there is no way Elon and Zach can understand every part of the business in every market and make the best decisions going forward. Tesla has a clear problem in management, and the CEO and his arrogant, controlling nature is the number 1 problem.
     
  12. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    One anecdote I have was the organization denied my request to by a Microsoft program (cost was $150 and no one questioned my need for it, but felt that it could be postponed for a few months). My need to use that program did not go away and I spent a lot more effort and it cost the company a lot lot more than $150 as I had to use workarounds. My leadership understood that it took a longer for me to do certain tasks, but could not fight the bean counter for a few months. When you have such situations, requester's now have to spend inordinate time justifying the request. This reduces morale and increases wasted time.

    Again, to be fair, I have see this in other organizations. In my experience, after a few months, such programs are unceremoniously laid to rest, however the bad feeling and ill effects persist for a long period of time. While cost control is important, nit picking is not cost control. Another example (based on true experiences) an employee who is traveling to a different city may be told to stay in a Motel 6, which 10 miles away from the organization the traveler needs to visit with, as it cheaper than the Hilton which is walking distance from the destination. If you now add up the costs of daily travel etc., the Hilton option may be cheaper, but that level of detail is usually ignored. If the traveler is asked to justify it, he/she has now to spend time looking at the options, calculating travels costs and time, and this is not productive time for the employee. Again people may think this is a trivial example, but believe me, things like this will happen.

    The unfortunate part is that such messages resonate with Wall street. They think that companies are becoming efficient by doing this. The more successful companies focus on strategic cost reduction (removing waste) not on creating an environment of fear.
     
  13. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Morale inside the company has got to be at an all time low. With all this cost micromanaging, ever the smarter, well intentioned employees will not be able to put their ideas into action without attracting Elon, which is hard to do in a company with 40K employees. Not to mention a big part of Tesla employees compensation is based on stock gifts, and when the price is below the strike, the employees get nothing. MSFT had this issue for a while and it made hiring very difficult. Once the current regime runs this company into the ground, and Toyota takes over, and fixes all the major issues, we will see the rebirth of the EV boom. As most people here say, the product is OK, it's the management and production / distribution system that is broken. Once Elon and his cronies are out and good management is in, this company just might find financial success. Sadly, I think Elon plans to take down a lot of people (investors like Bob), and companies with him, suppliers are most likely very nervous right now. I read a report a year ago, that 17 of 22 Tesla suppliers interviewed were worried about the financial risk of Tesla going insolvent. I think Panasonic recently updated their payment terms, giving Tesla less leeway in when invoices are paid. Panasonic can play hardball now that they have Toyota backing. Shoot, I thought when Tesla recently raised the 2.7B it would give them a year lifeline, but no dice... Elon says at current pace out of money in 10 months, and that is before capital investments because Q1 Elon used for cash burn comparison only had 280M of CapEX, WAY below guidance.
     
  14. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Willy-Wonka-Tesla-bashing.jpg
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I'm reminded of:


    "I'm not dead, yet." Elon Musk

    I simply bought the program, Microsoft Project, on my own dime and never looked back. In fact, I was quite happy to use my own money and purchased Macintosh computers to gain a competitive edge. This probably pissed others off but my compensation was always proportional to my productivity. I invest in myself and haven't been disappointed, yet.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  16. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    I offered to do that and was told that I could not install programs not licensed to the organization on the organizations computer. So that idea was proposed. However the larger point is that such initiatives are usually counter productive. There may be some who are willing to pay our of their pocket, but there is a limit to it. This creates an atmosphere of fear and intimidation and conversations like "I do not want to approve as Elon will question and make a big fuss". There needs to be processes and controls. However, in my experience, these initiatives, where CEO of a multi-billion dollar company is for example, going to scrutinize the purchase of $10 in office supplies, leads to avoidable chaos. The message that this conveys is "You employees including managers do not know how to control your expenses and the process in place is not working, so I the CEO will do it for you". You may disagree but this is a common view from the trenches.
     
  17. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Exactly, it's illegal for an organization to allow employees provide tools or instruments for company work unless there is a specific contract with the employees, as this opens up all kinds of issues from worker rights to discrimination.

    It's nice to know that Elon is in charge of toilet paper now, wonder if it will be Charmin Ultra or generic? All of these seemingly small decisions affect morale in the organization. Tesla clearly has no systems in place as a "Tesla Way" to do business, they have just been winging it from day 1 and still are. Now Big Papa Elon from his Gulfstream G650 will decide how the workers will wipe their backside. Let me guess, the G650 does not have generic toilet paper in the lavatory? haha!
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Fortunately I retired before it got that regressive. Plus I'm fairly fluent in spreadsheets and often prototype algorithms as needed.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    If Elon himself is driving this and wants the CFO to look at every page of the expenses (with he looking at every 10th page), do you think it will be anything but regressive? Even if an expenditure can be justified, people may refrain from asking as they do not wish to take on the CEO/CFO. Believe me, I have been there.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I would update my resume and move on.

    Bob Wilson
     

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