SOLVED- Unexpected ICE Turns On

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by AnthonyW, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    I have posted that in fact, the ICE does charge the battery. There is a clear flow from the ICE to the battery.
     
  2. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    upload_2018-10-7_11-29-46.jpeg
     
  3. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    I was talking about the other way: a flow from the battery to the ICE could be used to indicate the running engine was being used to burn off energy the fully charged battery cannot accept.
     
  4. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    No. I have seen that behavior. There have also been posts that the battery is never fully charged. 100% sure, but not the full capacity of the battery pack. If that is true, then the theory that the ICE is being used because the battery cannot take any more "juice" is wrong. Also, how does that explain that the ICE comes on multiple times even when some "juice" has been used? And, why don't pure EV cars have this problem?
     
  5. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    All good questions. I've never heard that the animated Power Flow graphic can show the flow going from the battery to the ICE. Perhaps if they ever figure out why your Clarity's ICE starts up for unknown reasons it might shed some light on why other owners' engines start up when the battery has just been charged and they initiate regen braking.
     
  6. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    Meant to say I have not seen the behavior of flow from the battery to ICE.
     
  7. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Bob, both theories can be right. The BMS is keeping the SOC at its maximum usable amount to preserve battery health. It would cause the battery to age prematurely if it allowed it to charge to 100% of its actual capacity.
    And pure EV (or BEV) cars don’t have this problem because they don’t have an ICE with it’s associated starter/generator. They just increase the ratio of physical brakes over regen if their BMS ever has to limit battery charging in order to protect the battery from “over” charging. They also appear to have a bigger % buffer at the top due to their much larger battery. Their owners just never notice it because it’s seemless or not even needed in the first place.

    And remember that your Clarity is the only one that has been reported to suffer from premature enginulation as one pundit posted (Sorry, I forgot who came up with that great line!). Have you had all the updates installed?
     
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  8. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    Ken, you spelled my manufactured idiom perfectly.
     
    Cash Traylor likes this.
  9. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    What a great line. I’m glad it is once again properly attributed to you. Can’t wait for your next gem!
     
  10. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    Does that mean you forgive me for the offensive avatar I made for you when you threatened to change your handle to Rain-X? Perhaps you never went back to see it in that thread so I'll re-offend:
    upload_2018-10-8_0-21-8.png
     
  11. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Nothing to forgive Insightman. I had a good laugh at that one too.
    PS: I’m shilling for TorqueLift now since I couldn’t get any alimony from RainX. I just received a free Clarity specific hitch to install and beta test.
     
  12. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    These are the topics that interest me regarding hitches for the Clarity:
    • Claimed towing capacity and how capacity was determined
    • Weight-bearing capacity (for bicycle-rack applications)
    • Potential galvanic connection of steel to aluminum parts
    • Amount of drilling/cutting required to Clarity parts (if any)
    • How easy the hitch is to remove and what evidence remains
     
  13. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    As I progress, I will share pictures; especially of the rear disassembly and instructions. I will also use a magnet and verify aluminum parts. I agree with you that dielectric potential (bad pun) problems should be addressed.
    I suspect that the hitch components will have stated trailer and tounge weights in excess of what the Clarity’ structural components will take.
    At first glance it appears that it needs very little cutting of the plastic fascia on the bottom.
    Will report in a new thread.
     
  14. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW Well-Known Member

    So this morning I got to make another observation. Initial reduction in state of charge and then assist. Came to the first red light and ICE is giving charge back to the battery. It turns off when the coolant temp reaches 159F. As I continue to drive ICE stays off until the coolant temp falls to around 130ish (I missed the precise temp). Ice comes back on. Stays on until it reaches the mid 170's (I missed the precise temp). Ones it hit that temp, the ICE went off, stayed off and the blue line came back.

    So I am guessing that it gets to it's operating temp in 2 stages. After the red light, I get right on the highway and so I reached the 170's mark fairly quickly. I can see how the ICE may cycle on and off multiple times for people who are driving surface streets and not going very fast. That would explain why it might come on 4 or 5 times before it turns off completely. Once you hit 159, it turns off but will continue to cycle back on until you hit the mid 170's.

    So anyone with an OBD scanner can try this and confirm if the same thing happens to them. All you need is the RPM's and engine coolant temp which I was able to get from my old OBD.

    Bob, can you describe your commute right after your ICE turns on? Is it around ton, stopping and going at red lights or highway or a mix?
     
  15. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW Well-Known Member

    Viking79

    The Scangauge state of charges are not altered, it is reporting what the car is saying. It's possible that we have only discovered 2 SOC that the car gives and there may be more that we don't know about.
     
  16. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    AnthonyW, the deeper you go, the more mysterious it seems. Do you think it's always the case that the ICE won't be happy to get to just 159 degrees and will always re-start to get to the mid-170's?

    Is the temperature the only available OBD signal that indicates the engine is running?
     
  17. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW Well-Known Member

    I think that the engine will always run until you hit 159. If you stop (stop sign, red light) after you have reached 159 but before you have reached 175 (lets just call it 175 for now), the engine will turn off like a regular hybrid. Once you get going again, it will cycle back on and continue it's climb to 175. If you stop again before 175 is reach then it will repeat the same process. That is my thought about what is happening and may explain why some people have the ICE stop and start 5 times before it stays off.

    I had MXV (SOC), voltage, RPM's and engine coolant temp showing on the Scangauge. When the engine was running while I was stopped, it was right at 1500 RPMs. While driving about 60mph it was around 2300RPM's. There is only about a second delay after the ICE turns off and the RPM goes to 0. I just missed the exact temp readings because I didn't know where the target was and I was driving. Now I know when to look so I should be able to get the exact temps next time.
     
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  18. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW Well-Known Member

    I forgot that the Scangauge records the highest readings of certain PID's for each trip. The engine water temp hit 177F before the ICE permanently shut off.
     
  19. Crota

    Crota Member

    I'm experimenting on why the ICE turns on when I have nearly a full charge. I've noticed that when I user the paddle for regen right after charging or near full charge, the ICE engine comes on. I will be experimenting with only using the pedal brake to stop the car until I see a "notch" lost on the battery. This is building on the idea of the ICE turning on to help redirect heat from generating energy from the braking. Perhaps the programming on the car knows to use disc brakes more than regen for slowing when the battery is near capacity. (This would also explain why some users see the behavior while others do not) I'll let you know what my findings are later. I know correlation does not mean causality and my sample size of one is not definitive so others who are experiencing the ICE turning on while near full charge, please test this as well. On the flip side, if other users want to play with their regen paddles more while near full charge and see their ICE turn on, it would help confirm my theory.
     
  20. Carro con enchufe

    Carro con enchufe Active Member

    I’ve had the ice come on with brakes only, going down a steep hill with full charge.
     

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