More paint failure on Clarity

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Eddgie, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    Walked out of grocery store and as I was getting into the car, found two more places where the paint has come off to the primer.

    I did a walk around when I got home and found additional places where the paint has completely come away from the car or where the clear coat is coming off.

    Honestly, I am concerned that there is a serious problem with either the quality of the paint, or the application of the finish.

    My car did come with an "Ibex" clear coat protection, so I can't rule this out as a possible contributor, but I can see the finger pointing writhing on the wall already.

    No spot is bigger than about 1/3rd inch (though the first spot was 1/2 inch) but a magnifying glass look at other very small blemishes shows numerous places where the clear coat is just starting to show lift.

    On the first trip to dealer, they said it was bird poo but I have washed the car four times and there was never any bird poo on it.

    I recommend that people do a through inspection of their paint and look for any signs that the clear coat is failing.

    By the way, my car is the green. Maybe it is paint specific.
     
  2. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    IMG_20180925_122628.jpg

    Just got back in from looking at the car with a magnifier. Absolutely see bubbles in the clear coat on the roof. It is failing right before my eyes. These are not just discoloration. When I rub my finger over them I can feel that they are bubbles.
     
  3. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    Should mark paint defects when you take delivery of the car. I would contact Honda with your concerns, and if they grow worse maybe they will cover it, but that looks like it was there originally. Is there a reason you started a new thread?
     
  4. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    No particular reason.. Just sat down and started typing.

    I did a very through check of the car before delivery, and I did not note any of these issues.

    Honda America requested that I take it to another dealer, which I did just now. Their theory is that perhaps brake fluid from the transporter got on the car and has in time damaged the paint, though the car was washed just before delivery. The above picture though did turn out to be some kind of agressive adhesive which the dealer said was likely from the shipping material.

    There is though extensive damage to the paint. To avoid the same mistake I made with the adhesive, I took pictures of these both at 1x, and through a 10x Magnifier. All of these spots are easily visible with the naked eye though. I did not do the entire roof. I did the corner that I could stand in the driver's dorr and take images of.

    IMG_20180925_130129.jpg IMG_20180925_134926.jpg IMG_20180925_134950.jpg IMG_20180925_135010.jpg IMG_20180925_135054.jpg
     
  5. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    1x of roof.jpg 1x of roof.jpg From further back (as someone requested) of one of the third spot in the above pics. 1x. Again, the magnifier might be 10x, but it is pretty easy to see in the picture here

    In the closeup, it does not look as much like it is being attacked as it does that it is delaminating from the primer and cracking off. But that is just the way it looks. Who knows what happened, but this sure does not look like Bird Poo damage to me and considering I have never seen bird poo on the car, I am going with something else as the reason.
     
  6. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    Much better photos, thank you.

    Yes, push Honda on that, I will check mine out, although I have silver.

    Google
    Kia Stinger Yellow
    and look at what is being done for owners of that car.

    Eric
     
  7. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    This is a closeup of the spot above. As can be seen, the paint clearly appears to be cracking and pealing off.

    Once can see the residual edges of where the different chips of paint came away from the primer. this is visible in other close up images I have taken, and not posted here. It is also easy to see that the cracks extend outward in all directions, and this would suggest that this spot is only starting and will continue to grow. You can actually see where every chip came off. Just like a puzzle.

    close up paint fail.jpg

    Nothing has (since I have owned it) been in contact with the roof but rain, sun, air, and Pollen. It sure looks to me like the paint is not adhering to the primer. This is not the way properly applied paint behaves. To get it off, you have to sand it off. This is coming off on its own.
     
    Viking79 likes this.
  8. Sadly, I have the wonderful dark green color too. I'll have to inspect my car tonight.

    I'll have to skip the spot where my son backed into the front driver quarter panel just behind the headlight last night!!! There's a two inch scratch there now with a small dent. :-( I thanked him because now I don't have to worry about the first scratch. :)
     
  9. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    Sadly, mine is doing it on both metal and plastic panels. This would suggest that it is the paint failing to adhere to the primer well, and as I said earlier, properly applied paint does not behave the way paint shown in the close up above does. You don't get chips radiating out and continuing to flake off. At least never before in my 67 years and maybe 15 cars have I seen paint come off this way.
     
  10. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    Thanks for the reference.

    If Honda offered to repaint with lifetime guarantee, I might do that because now I am concerned that if it is something like what is happening to the Kia, then I would be afraid that if they just took the car back and gave me another one, the same problem might happen.

    At this point though, I don't know if I would be happy if they just painted the roof, C pillar and trunk lid. I might wait to see if paint starts coming off on other body panels first. It will have to be taken down to the primer though and maybe further. I don't know if it is a paint, primer, or prep problem, but they don't know yet either I guess.

    Honda has the pictures now so ball is in their court for now.

    If I had green though, I would go over it with a fine tooth comb so we can make sure it is not another case of Stinger Yellow disease. If any defect is found, act fast (and please post for others to see). I am hoping it is something unique to my specific car, but this is a very unusual problem. I have been driving for 50 years and have owned a dozen new cars, and never have I had paint start to come off like this before. I fear that it might be something like the Stinger Yellow. Paint is just coming off.

    (and looking more closely, one of the pictures does look more like maybe another blotch of adhesive, but the chips are very obviously chips).
     
  11. David A

    David A Guest

    Eddgie...truly sorry for your issues...there is nothing right about whats going on with you car.

    Can you advise the build date of your car? This may help narrow it down if it is indeed a production run issue to all colors or particular to the Moonlit Forest Pearl.

    How long have you had the car? Any info will help others.

    Edit****
    I found the first post...so it was purchased mid-July. Build date could be helpful though.

    Good luck.
     
  12. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    The plate in the door it says 3/18.

    I bought the car around July 25th or so as I recall, so about two months old.

    The car is not garaged and it saw a couple of weeks of 100 plus days of heat. It gets seriously hot in Austin Texas. I mean hot! Still, I have never had a car have this kind of issue and our Honda Element is doing fine after 12 years and a modern automotive finish and of course it gets hotter in the south west, so I can't imagine that a properly applied paint would fail just because the car is in the sun, but it is a dark color, so that may have accelerated the rate at which the defect appeared.

    The first dealer said it was probably bird dropping damage (no) but I have never seen bird droppings or sap on the car and it has not seen any hail or anything like that.
     
  13. David A

    David A Guest


    Welp...Eddgie...My Clarity was made 3/18, was purchased late July, and is Moonlit Forest Pearl.

    I looked real good before buying and there was NO sign of bad paint...not even a blemish that I could find. I haven't noticed any issue with the paint at all but rest assured I will inspect thoroughly tomorrow. I'll respond tomorrow with my findings.
     
  14. Yukon903

    Yukon903 New Member

    Sorry this is happening to you. I have the same color vehicle and will definitely take a look at it once I get it back from the dealer. Had some issues with the suede becoming unglued on the trim above the glove box.
     
  15. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    I washed the car today.. No bird poo or tree sap or anything. Just dusty.

    After, I stood in front passenger door and checked roof from that side. Several little tiny suspect points in the finish, but these are not so tiny though the pictures were taken with a 10x magnifier. It was not hard to see these unaided though, but I like having the close up because it demonstrates that this is not happening due to liquid (Bird dropping or tree sap). one can see the cracks in the paint very easily.

    The round one appears to be over perhaps a spot weld in the roof? It does not show in the picture, but from an angle, there is a small depression and one of the spots around the edge of the remaining center paint is fairly deep. As I said, it was as if it was painted over a spot weld.

    IMG_20180926_130339.jpg

    This one is over the passenger seat. This one shows what appears to be a crack spreading. Looks just like a crack in plexi-glass. Unknown if it is the clear coat or the paint, but based on the other areas I have photographed, I would guess it is the paint failing under the clear coat and telegraphing up.

    IMG_20180926_130558.jpg

    Ok, I won't bore people with pictures any longer. This was only intended to make people aware of the problem so that they could keep their eyes on their own finishes. I hope this is not a Stinger Yellow kind of problem and fingers crossed that it was something in the prep or paint process itself that is at fault but now that I have seen it, I encourage others to periodically give a good close up inspection of their own finishes, especially if they have green.

    I will advise when I have had a response from the Honda Regional office.
     
  16. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    Heard from the second dealer. They sent picture to the Honda regional rep. Through them, the regional rep said that he does not feel that these are paint defects. He did offer to "help" pay to have the parts of the car affected repainted, but of course that does not work at all for me.

    I have suggested that they take this to their national headquarters, but I am readying my suit just in case they say the same thing. I have asked them for a response on Honda America Letterhead that says that Honda does not believe there is a defect in the paint and when I get this, I will move forward with legal action.

    I can't believe that this is happening. I have lost all faith in the regional Honda office. If these are not pictures of paint defects, I sure don't know what they are because my paint is coming off.

    So, you know what I know.
     
    Texas22Step likes this.
  17. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    Went to two different collision centers today.. Both said that they had not seen anything like what is happening to my car, and both were dubious that it was bird poo or tree sap, and both independently said it looked like the paint was coming free from the primer.

    Bids were over $2000 because both said that they could not provide lifetime guarantee on their paint unless it was stripped down to the primer because both said that their concern would be that if they just sanded the spots that were coming off and painted over it, the paint might bubble on other parts of the panel that they painted, so both said all affected panels have to be stripped.

    I asked for a letter from Honda America saying that they were not going to cover this under warranty because they thought it was due to external factors. Of course they don't want to provide this letter and have said the dealer has to provide it, but the last dealer I went to said that Honda Corporate was responsible for issues with paint finish.

    Honda of course says that the dealer is responsible to provide such a letter.

    So, Finger pointing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  18. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    Ok, Honda has basically said "So, go ahead and sue us." There you go.. Your Honda Paint warranty is seems like it might be meaningless. It seems like all they have to do is say "Oh, that is caused by something environmental!"

    Off to the lawyer's office.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  19. Yukon903

    Yukon903 New Member

    Curious if the environmental coverage (additional warranty coverage) would cover this?
     
  20. Eddgie

    Eddgie Active Member

    LOL.. I have had maybe 10 new cars in my life and never had paint start to flake off on any of them, and frankly, never thought I would ever need "environmental" coverage, though to be honest, I don't recall being offered "environmental" coverage.

    My faith in the Honda brand has been badly shaken now. I don't trust the dealer in Round Rock to be my advocate if I do have a warranty issue because they just blew it off as bird poo.

    Either way this seems it would look bad to Honda. If it really is environment and was caused by "bird poo" than that would suggest that you can't park your Honda under trees. Neither of the paint shops though said it looked like Bird Poo. Both said that it rarely takes off the paint and on the occasions that it does happen, it only etches the clear coat. Both said that they felt like they could not just sand the the areas involved, but would have to strip the paint because both said that they did not trust that other spots degrade under the new paint.

    So, Honda has put me in the corner. Corporate points to the dealer, the dealer point to Corporate and all say it is "environmental" (though the dealer in Round Rock was a bit less causal saying "bird poo.")

    I suspect that at some time I will run afoul of whatever Terms of Service this site has, but the info is out there.
     

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