In my basement sits a Maytag washing machine. Tired of big box store machines which leaked squeaked and broke down we went to a locally owned appliance store and got one of the last heavy duty Maytags built before the bankruptcy. It has survived the laundry needs of two teenagers, a wife who worked in food & beverige and me. True to the Maytag repairman ads it has never ever had a single problem and works flawlessly still 30 years later. For me, washing machines and cars are appliances. They serve the purpose of providing me with clean clothes and a way to move my behind from A to Z. I don't need a glamorous vehicle to impress my friends and neighbours or show off my (non existent) great wealth by rubbing it in to others how great I am and how poor they are. I don't need 0 - 60 in 3 seconds or loads of gimmicky tech features that probably won't work after a period of time. Will someone please make for me a "Maytag" EV! What I prize the most is reliability and durability. Remember folks that a vehicle costs you so much of your life energy spent working away. I would like to be spending my life energy on other things more meaningful to me.
Well if you are that old, then you need all those safety tech features to keep you from hurting yourself and others. The accident rate of older folks is only exceeded by teenage drivers. Secondly, cars are much more reliable then they where in the 70's and earlier even with all the tech gear. We can thank the Japanese for showing how statistical process control works. That being said, do we really need motorized charge doors, which seem to be a trouble spot on the Tesla vehicles. Eventually, we will own fewer cars and in many cases no cars at all. So something to look forward to for those who just want to point B for point A.
Planned obsolescence is one of the best ways to get your loyal customers back for a repeat purchase. If you want reliable, then you will have to wait another 3-5 years worth of battery degradation data.
Yes thanks for reminding of my age. I turn 70 this month. My night vision isn't what it used to be but not hazardous yet or I wouldn't drive at night. Older drivers have more experience and tend to be in less of a hurry which leads to less rash movements resulting in accidents. My next vehicle will likely be my last if I keep it a long time though for the obvious reasons. Now, getting back to useless doodads I wasn't referring to safety features but more like the motorized charge door you mentioned. Top on my list of questionable would be the gull wing doors on the TMX. Can't begin to imagine the repair costs for those puppies when they get old and mess up. The change to push button parking brakes is another. Instead of a simple lever and cable which have proved their reliability over decades we now have an electromechanical setup dependent on the 12V battery being functional. Door handles that pop out on command? Try a layer of frozen rain on top of those. While it is generally considered that safety features like driver assist will prevent some accidents they can also lull drivers into a false sense of security so they may not react in time to a sudden change in time for a situation that the car doesn't recognize. Until an AI is developed that can drive a car better than a human being you need to be paying full attention all the time.
Traditionally, Toyota and Honda have been the Maytags of the automotive world. It would not shock me if that continued as they electrify. By the way, for anyone not aware, the Maytag brand is now owned by Whirlpool, whose reliability is notoriously wretched and seems to have rubbed off on Maytag, whose reputation had already been dented by selling some rebranded Amana appliances that were not up to the old Maytag standards. I find that all really sad -- it was once a truly great line of products.
Couldn't agree more that Hondas and Toyotas are the Maytags of the automotive world, which is why I will be giving serious consideration to the Japanese brands for my next vehicle. I have observed two things about their manufacturing "culture" over the years. (1) They practice Kaizen or continuous improvement whether it's in the product itself or the manufacturing process. They learn from their mistakes and fix them. Sometimes openly and sometimes quietly as with the case of Leaf batteries. (2) They play the game with their cards very close to the chest tending to be fairly tight lipped about upcoming products or changes. I sometimes wonder if Toyota's panning of electrification was a ruse to make competitors think they had nothing in the oven. It seems counter intuitive for long term profits to make products which last so long instead of planned obsolescence but what it really does is build a rock solid customer base who will faithfully return when it finally does reach the end of it's service life. I expect the Maytag to outlast me but if it does die I would cheerfully pay the premium price if I was sure to get another as good. I am aware of Maytag being part of Whirlpool now. It's too bad Nissan has no plans update the Leaf say replacing Chademo with CCS at the least. My aging back and butt just love those seats. My satisfaction with how the Leaf has performed is one of the reasons I will take a serious look at the Ariya if and when it ever becomes available to test drives. I will also be very interested in whatever Toyota comes up with for the reasons you stated. I do have a buy local sentiment so I will give preference to manufacturers which have a presence in my home country even if t he particular vehicle isn't made here. I am content to let the Osbourne effect continue now as the Leaf is working well for me and with the current shortages it is not a good time to replace anything. Hopefully when things get moving down the road there will be lots of choices and all the advances in specs that go with it. Well see.
EV drivetrains have about 100 times, fewer moving parts than ICE drivetrains. Fewer parts that won't wear out as fast as the collection of ICE drivetrain parts. Battery degradation and risks are well known. Happily, the newer LFP chemistry has great prospects for longer and safer life. As for the 'home run' solid state batteries, there are a lot of claims but not much production, at least in the USA. The most recent EV fail was the GM Bolt ... what looks to be an outsourced model from Asia rebadged by GM. Given our bad experience with a Chevette, not surprising. Imposing GM between the manufacturer and customer does not lead to a good result. Bob Wilson
I agree that Japanese brands are generally on top in terms of reliability & affordability, but Toyota is not on the top like they used to be. They've fallen enough and the US companies have come up enough that I'll consider an American car now, where 10 yrs ago I wouldn't consider it. My Rav4 had to go in 2 or 3 times for recall work on the rear tie rods, the ultimate solution was epoxy the adjustment in place so it wouldn't loosen. A friend of mine had major engine work just outside the 60k warranty.
My 26 year old son feels the same way about cars. He wants a car that you get in and it takes you where you tell it you want to go. I told him that already exists: it’s called a taxi and the modern version is Uber or Lyft. No need to buy anything. I purely love driving as does my wife and my other son. Perhaps cars are appliances to you because those are the only kind you drive. It’s why I hate rental cars. They are almost always soul less machines that truly are appliances to get from A to Z. If you only want an appliance, look for a cheap EV from Nissan, Kia, or Hyundai. I encourage you to instead look for something that awakens a passion you’ve never experienced when driving.
Therein lies the seductiveness of the automobile. I make no claim to being immune to it myself. Yes I do enjoy driving, both my smooth reliable Leaf and my 23 year old ICE with the manual tranny. There is always the pleasure of rowing through the gears with a manual. I also enjoyed the growl from my long distance past that the GM V6 engine made when you "opened 'er up and let 'er go. There are indeed many pleasures associated with driving. At the same time we spend most of our life and it's energy working at something and a great deal of the financial fruits of that labour go into the costs of owning and operating automobiles. Working to pay for the cars we need to get work! My "cars as appliances" stance is a stark reminder to myself the cost of ownership can eat into other joys in life like buying musical "toys" , other hobby interests, enjoying a good restaurant or concert. You get the idea. My Maytag analogy is that what I value the most in machinery is reliability and durability leading to a long useful service life. At this stage in life my next vehicle may well be my last and I may well be tempted to go for a few frills. As Bunkie Knudsen famously said: "You can sell an old man a young man's car but you can't sell a young man an old man's car". Enjoy the ride my friend.
Huh? Within my budget I've always inclined toward cars that are fun and engaging to drive, and my Hyundai Kona Electric is the most fun-to-drive vehicle I've ever owned. By miles. It's anything but an appliance. An acquaintance with a newly purchased Kia EV6 feels similarly about his. Now the Nissan Leaf, yeah, that's an appliance.
Yes but can your Kona V2G like the Nissan LEAF? It's the most fun-to-park (at home) vehicle that I've ever owned!
Watch June 26th when this "appliance" tackles Pikes Peak Source: Two-Door Nissan Leaf With Bonkers Aero To Tackle Pikes Peak (motor1.com)
I've owned sports and sporty cars all my life, but none have been as quick or as much fun to drive as my MINI Cooper SE. Before GM put the Bolt on bargain-basement sale, the SE was the least expensive EV available in the US. About its 110-mile range: "Exchange the range for a ton of fun" is my slogan. Next year, MINI starts making a new version of the SE in China. The new, slightly smaller SE will certainly offer more range but I hope it doesn't lose any of the British car's panache.
So understand the point about the charge door, it is unnecessary, as are motorized door handles. That said, we could say that electric windows and power door locks are also unnecessary complications, and they certainly used to be problematic in their early days, but rarely today. The same applies to everything. Just don’t be an early adopter I guess. it’s a bit like a Toyota, the car for appliance minded people. They are generally the most reliable but that’s the only good thing about them. Exterior and interior styling, driving dynamics, performance and technology are years behind everyone else. But they are reliable and residuals reflect that. The opposite would be the likes of Land Rover whose SUVs are cutting edge in every way, but reliability is poor. But to retain their position they have no choice, those buyers want the latest and greatest thing. Most cars sit in the middle and as EV drivetrains are so much simpler and solid state, overall reliability should be better than we have ever experienced, even if motorized charge flaps will fail in the first few generations…
As long as the manufacturers provide a manual override that ensures you can always get the charge flap open, a motorized failure won't be a deal-breaker. However, one member of InsideEVs' MINI Cooper SE forum had his manual charge-port door get stuck closed--and there's no back-up release. That's a genuine concern.
When I bought my first house in San Diego in 1987 and was ready to move in the first thing I did was march down to the big appliance store on University Ave to buy a Maytag washer and gas dryer. The salesman was slick and well-dressed with black rim glasses just like the door-to-door type right out of the 1950s. I noticed the junior salesmen were enviously watching his sales technique. As part of his performance he climbed into the washer tub and jumped up and down to show me how "tough" it was. "Hotpoint is built by Maytag" he said over and over but are "less expensive", although I noticed that the rear panel was made of fibreboard rather than steel. 30 minutes later I was signed up for the Hotpoints. As I was driving home I realised that I'd been taken for a fool and returned directly to the shop and demanded that they switch my order to the brand that I'd originally asked for, which cost about only 3% more for the pair. Those simple, rugged Maytag appliances worked perfectly for the 17 years I was living in that house I reluctantly left them when I sold the house and moved to NZ. I'd like the "Maytag EV" as well. I have an early Kona now and although it has the "driving" features necessary to get the safety rating high enough (5 star) to be sold here, it doesn't have the navigation or BlueLink that both seem to be a constant source of questions and complaints. After 3 years and now out of warranty I've started to warm up to the car more than I had originally, particularly after discovering and getting past the worry of a gearbox issue. There are a lot more EVs available now to draw me away, plus a $8.6k rebate (not a tax offset) for those under 80k. But the Kona is still just as competitive within the basics of range and other essentials, plus it has a heat pump. I'm particularly aware of manufacturing quality because of my past career and I see very good quality throughout with the single exception of the lack of a working gearbox magnet. There's nothing about any of the latests EVs I would want other than a new-car smell, so I'm sticking with the Kona as my Maytag EV.
