High Mileage Clarity PHEV - Reliability, Maintenance, Cost

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Kundan, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    I should have been more precise. What I really meant was that it can’t be going off just HV miles since mine indicated the first oil change at exactly 1 year and 1 day after purchase with <13 hours on the ICE and ~750 miles in HV. I installed an hour meter so the 13 hours includes the occasional brief ICE runs for assumed System Checks and starts due to reduced regen on a full battery. The miles were recorded on the 3 HV trips I made the first year and I never ran the battery down to 0 EV and had it automatically enter HV. I only drove ~7,600 miles the first year so that’s ~90% EV and 10% HV for me. Purchased 2/19/18; build date 11/17. MM later indicated “service due” on 2/12/18 at 7,442 miles.

    So I make the assumption that my low total miles allowed me to go the full year on the oil change since 750 miles/13 hours on the ICE is a ridiculously short oil change interval. It may have even timed out since it was at ~ 12 months. WBut we really don’t know what parameter(s) the MM is using since Honda is so tight lipped. All we know for sure is not to go over 1 year from the manual.

    It appears from the posts on this forum that with normal driving miles, most are seeing their MM call for 2 oil changes per year. And I don't begrudge my MM and the manual for having me change the oil at least once a year, even with my extremely low ICE usage, since oil does have its additives age and it accumulates moisture and acids that are best removed each year.

    I just wish Honda would tell us with what and how the MM is calculating all this. Not holding my breath.
  2. Evfred

    Evfred Member

    Just curious if anyone else has experienced the apparent degradation jdonalds has? Not ideal for those looking to keep the car long term...
  3. bpratt

    bpratt Active Member

    My car may be one of the oldest Claritys with a manufacture date of 10/2017 and I purchased it in 12/2017. I am currently getting 60 to 65 miles on a charge, just like last year.
  4. Kundan

    Kundan New Member

    How many miles on the odometer for you?

    The two biggest enemies of the battery are time and temperature. Obviously usage also has a factor too. With that said, I am wondering if the life of the battery, and the range it provides is also degraded from letting the car sit (without use) and even worse if it sits in a place like Minnesota (low temps) or Arizona (high temps).
  5. LAF

    LAF Active Member

    bought ours 12/17 and now have 20K miles- getting 59 EV miles this summer
  6. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Active Member

    I wonder if a software update did this. I got my clarity in late 2018. My low ev range may correlate to the 3 software patches I had the dealer apply.

    Anyway it seems possible Honda realized their initial algorithm was ‘too generous’ and more likely to hit warranty replacement in years before 10 so instead of reserving say the top and bottom 7%, they switched to 12% or whatever.

    Anyway it’s possible those of us with lower range simply have all the extant software updates?

    I say this because despite only getting say 26 miles range in winter, my battery signal came in at 53.2 which doesn’t seem that bad.


    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
  7. Clarity Dave

    Clarity Dave Member

    I had all five TSBs (18-089, 18-090, 18-091, 18-096 and 18-097) applied in May and I am getting about the same EV range on a full charge -- in the high 50's -- as I recall getting last summer.

    I haven't been using A/C, so the theory in another thread that TSB 18-090 might reduce EV mileage with A/C use wouldn't contradict what I'm seeing.
  8. kcsunshine

    kcsunshine Active Member

    I'm getting mid 50s of summer EV range at approximately 13k miles and I think I have the software updates. I had around 60 the first summer before the update.
  9. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    At one and a half years and ~10,000 miles, I’m getting 62 to 64 EV miles on the GOM and at least 60 actual but I seldom let the charge deplete to 0.
    That’s in temps 70 to 90 F with AC, one person, local 55 mph max and about 50:50 hwy/city in Econ.

    I’ve only done the very first update for the HV range fix (hey, if it’s not broke, why fix it?). I’ve had no problems at all and have never heard the angry bees. I do about 90% EV. I’ve tracked every gal of gas and kWh of electricity. I’ve only pumped 17 gal over the year and a half. Electricity is fusion based (solar) so it’s “free” (anticipate a 9 year break even on the solar). My Clarity is ridiculously inexpensive to drive and my carbon footprint is so small even Al Gore can’t find it!
  10. Richard_arch74

    Richard_arch74 Active Member

    In answer to your question. . . "am wondering if the life of the battery, and the range it provides is also degraded from letting the car sit (without use) and even worse if it sits in a place like Minnesota (low temps) or Arizona (high temps).

    From my limited amount of experience, leaving the car unused and garaged in an unheated garage in Michigan last winter, I have had no degradation of EV range from it sitting for 3 months. In fact the traction battery only lost 2-3% of its charge over the 3 month period.

    Only time will tell if the life of the battery will degrade faster than normal with going year after year of 3 out of 12 months unused in cold temps.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app
  11. ClarityPHEVer

    ClarityPHEVer Member

  12. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    I didn't see his byline.

    Anyways he said, "Nothing else like it on the market. It is $15,000 less than a Model 3, which is what makes it such a great buy." and "Do I want a Model 3 Long Range (standard range doesn’t charge quick enough for me for long travel)? Yes, but could I have convinced my wife to buy one instead of the Clarity PHEV? Not likely, too much more expensive and wasn’t confident in long distance driving yet."

    Yeah, the Model 3 was on my final three short list when I decided on the Clarity. I too would need the LR version due to the lack of infrastructure (both Tesla and public/private) in my rural travel areas away from interstates. Add in paint (really?), TT&L, destination charges, and the smaller tax credits and post incentives I was looking at close to $52k vs $22k for the Clarity=no brainer.

    But still there was the allure, especially for FSD (not figured in the above pricing), that kept it in the "final two" but reliability overall seems very hit or miss and if I got a miss (and an expensive miss that would be!), the closest service center is a 350 mile/5 hour round trip and, oh yeah, they're not open on the weekends. Pass.
  13. Groves Cooke

    Groves Cooke Active Member

  14. Steven B

    Steven B Active Member

    Purchased 12/2017. Initial battery capacity not measured. Capacity measured at 52.9Ah in 4/2019, so extrapolating worst case (initial degradation rate much higher than long term degradation), battery would reach the replacement state (66% capacity) in 2029.

    21k on the car and have now received third oil change notice. At second change, I sent oil for analysis and came back very clean. Current oil has approx. 2400 miles on it based on conservative mpg and total number of gallons consumed during the 7-month period.

    I recommend checking tire pressure; maybe for that first year, you had the tires at their factory pressure of 50psi and the trip to the dealer resulted in the tech lowering the pressure to the recommended 36psi.
  15. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    Anybody know the location of a fuse to shut off the resistance heater?
  16. Clarity_Newbie

    Clarity_Newbie Active Member


    See if this helps.

    Attached Files:

  17. ryd994

    ryd994 Active Member

    Maybe the heater is drawing power straight from the HV battery? In that case, we won't be able to unplug the fuse. The fuse will be HV energized and can be serviced by technicians only.
    B18 seems relevant, but it controls A/C too. B17/B19 seems suspicious, what is "ES" water pump?
  18. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    I guess that means nobody knows where that fuse might be...

    I had looked at that diagram before, and came up with the same questions.

    It was suggested to 'remove the fuse' so I thought I had missed some new information.

    It would be really nice to 'deactivate' the heater during summer months. I get the impression it is also used for dehumidifying. I would love to investigate that, but I cannot even get a reading of the amperage/power used in the heater.
  19. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    The resistance heater is clearly not running off the 12v system....heck I’ve seen it draw as much as 4500 watts in preconditioning mode off my level 2 charger if memory serves from winter. If that were running off the 12v system the math says it would need to be protected by a 375 amp or larger fuse!

    More likely a big circuit breaker is protecting the resistance heater wiring, which is running off the traction battery. My strong recommendation is don’t mess with it and forget the idea. Accept the car for what it is.

    And no amount of heat does anything for dehumidification. Cold coils from the AC remove moisture in summer. Heat does not.

    Obviously I can’t prove anything but I find it highly unlikely the resistance heater would ever come on during a time that the climate control is not calling for heat to be added to the cabin. If cold air is coming out of the vents, the heater is off and not contributing to battery drain.
  20. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    Fuse B18. The last item in the list for that fuse "Electric coolant heater"

    Electric coolant heater fuse.png

    Electric coolant heater part.PNG
    The pump for the coolant heater is on the same list, shown as "Electric Heater Coolant Pump", as is the valve, shown as "Electric Water Valve".

    Electric coolant heater assembly.PNG

    If you want to see where the coolant heater is located it's just behind the oil fill cap. If you follow the coolant hose indicated by the red arrow in this photo which is coming from the cabin, the hose goes to the top hose connection of the coolant heater.

    Electric coolant heater.jpg

    The heater would be more efficient if it was located in the cabin but I guess since it is on a high voltage circuit they had to locate it in the engine compartment.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    KentuckyKen likes this.

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