Expect Mega chargers to see use on Tesla Cars

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by 101101, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. 101101

    101101 Active Member

    A mega charger at 1160 kwh or 145x8 could charge a 100KWH electric vehicle like a Model S in about 5 min and 10 seconds.

    If you had a 100KWH battery in a model 3 you'd improve the range by 25% and if you added a second motor possibly another 11% for 430 miles of range. The 25% increase in energy density is coming.

    Now the car would have to be wired like the Semi where its as if 8x 145KWH lines and 100KWH batteries have been combined into a single cable and single connector and single station and single vehicle.

    Now what is interesting is is at 24.8mpg and a flow rate of 10 gallons per minute in the US it would take about 1.44 seconds or about 2 minutes, sometimes considerably slower to fill an equivalent 430 mile take. But given that electrics start out charged every day and there is no equivalent at home- not even if people want at system that would build up compressed natural gas in tanks and transfer it- since there is no equivalent system- the implementation of this system which will likely always have uniform charge rates vice slow sometimes much slower gas pumps will be the last nail the coffin of any claimed advantage for gas cars.

    The truth is electric cars are already much more convenient than gas cars almost every day of the year. Radically so. And this mega charger will meet electric cars that not only have a lower total cost of ownership but also a lower sticker price and not equal or better range. Further that Trump admin will be gone by then and policies that aim to make up incredibly embarrassing and corrupt lost ground will have hit by then.

    And its likely that to make this really convenient as that might be a heavy connector and cable for the Semi and to make it safer the car would pull up and the system would engage from underneath the car- not saying this would be the case for the Semi but presumably with self driving semis it will also be an automated system like Tesla's snake charger. This under carriage system is something Tesla has patents for or at least has tried designs. Remember Tesla had the battery swapper system as well.

    One thing is this might be a bit more than 7 cents a kwh but may not be that much more. Thing is even at 80kwh if you assume you need 3x as much battery in the ground and assume every 3rd charge would be a cycle, across 5K charge cycle life you might need still another 50% bulk discount off retail (80kwh in a couple to few years) to get to 9 cents a kwh just for pack replacements and maybe another 3 cents (or possibly a lot less for the canopy PV provided power.) Maybe 11 kwh- but that might be at cost and not covering real estate etc. But it seems that every charger station will become an automated dealership. You'd probably need 8 foot ball field worth of PV canopy. And even if it recharged 1600 cars a day it wouldn't make more than 20K per day in cash flow of the charging. This is where it just make so much more sense to charge at home. But its also feeds into micro grid.
     
  2. 101101

    101101 Active Member

  3. EVsRUS

    EVsRUS New Member

    Just to add a bit of information to this insightful discussion on Extreme Fast Charging and NVX

    Novonix was spun out of Pr Jeff Dahn's research lab at Dalhousie Uni. Two of his PHD students are major shareholders of Novonix and are running the two business units. Novonix BTS (Dr Chris Burns) and PUREgraphite anode materials (Dr Ed Buiel).

    I have mentioned in another thread that the company is working on extreme fast charging and extending the life of Lithium Ion Batteries...

    Meet Tesla's new weapon, a battery scientist

    http://fortune.com/2015/06/17/meet-teslas-new-weapon-a-battery-scientist/



    Novonix's division PUREgraphite's facebook page below.

    https://www.facebook.com/puregraphiteusa/

    [​IMG]


    PUREgraphite
    12 February · [​IMG]
    One of the biggest challenges for EVs is fast charging. Tesla offers the fastest charging system through their network of super chargers but these systems only charge at 1.25C for the first 50% and 0.6C for the last 50% for a total charge time of about 1h and 15 mins. Charge rate is limited by the graphite anode material and efforts to replace graphite either result in a large penalty in energy density and/or battery life. Graphite materials that exhibit faster charge rate are a key focus of PUREgraphite’s R&D efforts.


    [​IMG]


    PUREgraphite
    10 February · [​IMG]
    PUREgraphite is developing new graphite materials that will enable batteries to charge faster, reducing charge times from over an hour to less than 10 minutes. Stay tuned...



    [​IMG]


    PUREgraphite
    5 February · [​IMG]
    Did you know, PUREgraphite has already demonstrated longer life batteries compared to the industry best products?


    If this is proven and validated, then it will revolutionise the EV Grid energy storage markets.
    Extreme Fast Charging.jpg


     
  4. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I fully expect to see ordinary passenger car EVs charging at a rate above 1000 kW... someday. But not with current battery tech. We need batteries with lower internal resistance, so they won't overheat even with ultrafast charging, far faster than charging with today's Superchargers.

    Maybe even first-generation solid state batteries will be able to be charged that fast. Or maybe that will have to wait for some future tech breakthrough.

    EV tech is at about the state of the art that motorcar tech was shortly before the Ford Model T. Nobody back in that era could have foreseen all the improvements that are standard equipment in cars today. Similarly, there's no way we can predict what advances will come in electric cars over the next century. But we can be sure they are coming!

    Up the EV revolution!

     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  5. EVsRUS

    EVsRUS New Member

    Pushmi

    1 100% agree with you there. We will see 1000kw charge rates in the next decade. What excites me is the current leap from 120kw charges on a Tesla Super Charger to 375-450kw for 100% battery charge and not restricted to 50% at these rates then a trickle charge, that we will see soon if Novonix's researchers can validate their Xtreme Fast Charging with their new battery cell manufacturing plant now in operation.

    https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20180723/pdf/43wpg0ddq4326d.pdf

    If they can prove their Novonix Batteries with PUREgraphite anode can charge a Tesla 90D in less than 10 minutes, at volume production, then we truly have a significant Lithium Ion Breakthrough on our hands for EVs.


    Extreme Fast Charging.jpg
     

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