Diversity at the Charger

Discussion in 'General' started by BlueKonaEV, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    Usually, most of the cars ar public chargers are Teslas.. I just pulled in at a charger at a Tampa mall and there were 6 different EV brands charging.

    A Fisker Karma, a Porsche Panamera PHEV, a Mini Countrymen PHEV, a BMW i3, a Model 3 and my Kona Electric.
    The Panamera left when I started charging, so it's not in the pics.. 20200101_164638.jpg 20200101_164641.jpg 20200101_171351.jpg
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  2. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    A Bolt just pulled up beside me making it 7 brands total within a few minutes.. 20200101_171936.jpg
  3. The Fisker Karma is a very pretty looking PHEV. Wish they could have expanded with fully electric versions.
    BlueKonaEV likes this.
  4. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Diversity to the extent of different brands of plug-in EVs is good. The market needs all the compelling long-range BEVs it can get, and arguably needs at least a few good PHEVs too!

    What's bad is a diversity in charging protocols. CCS vs. CHAdeMO vs. Tesla is really holding back the EV revolution. It's like the old VHS vs. BetaMAX format "war". The industry really needs to agree on one single fast-charging standard, so that commercial EV charging stations can be built out to support only a single format instead of multiple ones.

    electriceddy likes this.
  5. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    Let's not forget that US and the rest of the world have different connectors too for Level 2 and CCS..
    electriceddy likes this.
  6. Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  7. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I know that European CCS and American CCS use different charging protocols. Are the plugs physically different too?

  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Yes, they are different. The EU has a "Mennekes" connector about the size of a J1772 but flattened on the top. My understanding the Mennekes supports 3-phase AC charging versus the J1772 that is single phase. For fast DC charging, both CCS-1 and CCS-2 have two additional connectors.

    Comparing both CCS-1 and CCS-2 to the Tesla connector that is smaller than the J1772 and easily handles 80 kW AC and 250 kW DC. I don't know if the Tesla connector handles 3-phase which is more common in the EU but some of the tear-downs have shown the Tesla AC-to-DC charger has provisions for 3-phase.

    For as long as I can remember, there have been power adapters so small appliances can run on non-USA power. It isn't just the physical plug but step-up or step-down and dealing with frequency differences.

    I have no problem with the Tesla-to-CCS2 adapter and wish we had a Tesla-to-CCS1. We already have a 50 kW, Tesla-to-CHAdeMO which in a pinch is better than nothing.

    Bob Wilson
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  9. tps5352

    tps5352 Member

    Bob, if I can put you on the spot, where do you weigh in on the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter issue? I assume from your previous post that you think that they are worth the expense?

    As a potential new Tesla driver, I am debating whether to invest $450 (new from Tesla) or even more (in online sales) for one of these. I don't question the engineering and quality. But $450 seems like a lot of money for just an adapter.

    I totally understand the desire to help alleviate range anxiety (for longer trips). For example, I of course plan to lug around the J1772 adapter and an ample collection of (also arguably unnecessary?) Tesla Gen 2 mobile connector adapters to help ensure charging availability. But I question whether I would use the CHAdeMO adapter that often. (However, is just one emergency use enough to justify that purchase? Maybe so.)

    Interestingly, I do find that there is a CHAdeMO charger near my home (but not a Supercharger). However, the company is apparently gradually adding Tesla plug/cable attachments to their charging machines (starting in San Francisco). So might that be another reason to forgo the expense of the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter?

    You clearly seem up-to-speed on tech stuff; is there any chance that the CHAdeMO plug configuration will change in the near future, making current adapters obsolete? (That seems unlikely.) Or is there an acceptable alternative to the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter itself I'm not familiar with?

    Anyway, I'd be glad to hear from people on both sides of this issue. As others have alluded to, while perhaps understandable it is too bad for the proprietary nature of electric-car charging right now. Perhaps someday, once electric vehicles are in the majority of new car sales, a good standard will be established?


  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    IMHO, a CHAdeMO adapter should be shared by the local Tesla community:
    • 50 kW is ~5x faster than 7-10 kW of a J1772/destination charger
    • it is too heavy to hang by cables but needs a strap or support to keep it plugged in
    • cost per 3x higher per kWh higher than a SuperCharger
    I tested a borrowed one but it didn't make practical sense for my area. So I use SuperCharger planning and backup with overnight J1772/destination chargers.

    Now if an affordable, CCS-1 adapter should show up, the economics change and hopefully the size. Then I could use a 150-350 kW Electrify America station or in a pinch, an EVgo charger.

    Bob Wilson
  11. tps5352

    tps5352 Member

    1. The gray car (with slightly questionable parking skills) is beautiful. Looks like a cross between some sort of Corvette and a sporty Mazda. Is that the hybrid Fisker? Yes, too bad the early company failed. But he is trying again, I hear with the "Ocean" and a more expensive model, correct?

    2. I've been having fun over at the Tesla Motors Club with a whimsical (but apparently factual) Thread, "Lizards got into my locked Model X!."


      Any sightings of reptiles in an around your car, there in Tampa? You folks have tons of scaly critters there, right?

      Seems like just recently we have western fence lizards (relatives of Florida species) living right around our little planned unit community here in Davis, California. (A small indication of climate change?) So I guess they could get in my car. I rescued one from a concrete multi-story downtown Sacramento parking garage years ago. (How it got in there, I have no idea. But probably hitched a ride in a car.)

      Just speculating further, EVs might (unfortunately) turn out to be better environments for small animals (due to much reduced engine heat, close to zero petroleum fumes, fewer exposed moving parts)? Lizards I wouldn't mind, but rodents, not so much. Any stories from the Sunshine State?
  12. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    Yes, it's a Fisker Karma..
    We have tons of lizards as also Alligators.. Never had one get into my car yet.. South Florida has tons of Iguanas. They are a plague, causing lots of property damage. Cities in South Florida try to get rid of the Iguanas. They are an invasive species that was not native to Florida.

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