Are EV owners more scared of COVID-19 than ICE owners?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by FloridaSun, May 5, 2020.

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  1. ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    In some areas, the 1st wave isn't over. There are far too many people in denial about it - demanding reopening of things while the case rates are still increasing. There are governors that are fudging the numbers, and some that are refusing to perform testing.

    That being said, I have seen data from cell phones that mobility was decreasing *before* governments starting issuing stay-at-home orders. Had they done nothing, restaurants and such would have still seen a substantial decrease in the number of patrons.
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  3. Yes, that's true. Unreal how hard NY and NJ got hit. Seems they are getting better now, although still very bad. Very sorry to see the tragic high loss in the nursing homes there. Seems that sheltering in place in high density locations was still not enough to stop it. Even the NY governor was shocked.
  4. cmwade77

    cmwade77 Active Member

    I so wish this was true around here, but you give me hope for the road trips we want to do.
  5. cmwade77

    cmwade77 Active Member

    Everywhere is eventually going to have to go through these high case rates, the question is do you too the band aid off slowly and prolong the suffering or did you reopen things, reduce the unintended cassulties (such as more suicides in the last 5 months than COVID deaths by a factor of 10 or so with 80% or more directly attributable to the policies in place) and reopen everything and get it done and over with.
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  7. ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    But that's a false choice. The rest of the world has figured out how to get the case rates way down and have things relatively open. It is only the United States that has so completely bungled the COVID response that it seems like those are the only two options.
    Bruce M. and Clamps like this.
  8. cmwade77

    cmwade77 Active Member

    Actually, you do understand we have a lower case rate per million people than almost every other country out there, right? We just have substantially larger population, so the numbers are higher, but percentage wise we are lower. I think the countries that have actually kept the rates low will eventually see a rise in numbers as well though.
  9. cmwade77

    cmwade77 Active Member

    Yes, as the are using 2018 population figures, which are inaccurate, they are also including cases from:
    • Health Care Providers - Sorry, but they really need to be separated out because the nature of the job makes them more likely to catch something, so they can't really be part of the statistics.
    • Nursing Homes - Sorry, but people die in nursing homes all the time, it is the nature of caring for the elderly, so we really need to remove these from the statistics.
    • Those who are completely asymptomatic, but tested positive when going into hospitals for "elective surgeries". For example, let's say you go to the hospital for knee surgery, standard practice is to test for COVID right now and that makes sense; however, if you test positive you are now listed as hospitalized due to COVID, even though you are completely asymptomatic and would never have been tested aside from getting the surgery.
    • Those whose tests were cancelled or they didn't show up for their tests and then a week later they get a letter saying their test (which they never took) came back positive. And I personally know a few people this happened to, so it does indeed happen.
    • Those who are terminally ill and go into the hospital because of the illness and clearly die from it, but test positive for COVID when admitted. (Same with gun shot wounds and other fatal injuries)
    There may be other categories that need to be removed from the totals as well, it is important we track these numbers (except the tests that were never taken coming back positive, those need to be thrown out completely), but they need to be separated from total case counts as they are outliers.

    But, let's even go on the assumption that their numbers are correct, that means you have a 0.7% chance of catching this disease.

    Deaths are a little more complicated to go back in time, so I will use current numbers for those: For those that do catch the disease the chances of dying is about 3.4%, but out of the entire population, your chance of actually dying from this (after all there is only one you) is: 0.045%

    This means any number of things are more likely to kill you than COVID is.

    Let's compare that to the Flu for last year:
    The estimates are about 47,500,000 cases last year alone. Now of course we have only been tracking COVID cases over the last 6 months or so, so to keep this fair, we will divide in half to get 23,750,000 or giving you a 6.2% chance of catching the Flu. There were about 62,000 deaths from the flu, so granted the death rate for those that get the FLU is lower than COVID, but you have a much higher chance of getting the FLU in the first place.
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  11. FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    I believe that he meant death rate.. The US has one of the lowest FATALITY RATES PER CASE in the world. The lowest in the civilized world.. That makes the US healthcare system look good if we keep the fatality rate low. We surpassed Germany for the lowest per case fatality rate.
  12. Maybe, I simply was pointing out that the US is not one of the lowest in terms of cases per million and found that chart and info to verify. I also don't think you can remove categories on anecdotal evidence. And you certainly can't remove health care workers as that would fall under your deaths by flu comparison as well as the other outliers you cited. I also have zero issues using global population figures from 2018, that's a legitimate data pool that wouldn't be terribly offset in two years.
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  13. Hopefully, with some of the current therapeutics, and better care in our nursing homes, that death rate should remain low. Then it is just waiting for the vaccine for the ultimate end to this scourge.

    While I don't condone what some of our young people are doing with risky behaviour, I can understand it. I think everyone is getting really tired having our freedoms suppressed so we can't enjoy life fully. Having said that, older people and those with underlying conditions cannot let up their guard. This thing is still a real killer.

    I think all this covid tension has also manifested itself in some of the societal breakdowns we have seen lately with the riots and political craziness. I just hope the effect doesn't last, and we end up with even more bad fall-out down the road, after the covid is gone. I am normally a very optimistic person, but I now do fear what might happen going forward.
  14. I still don't get why wearing a mask and staying a little further from each other is considered taking away your constitutional rights. It's caring for each other. Nothing else.

    On the contrary, without COVID-19, if somebody gets in my face I'm (rightfully) upset about it, all of a sudden it's taking away my rights?
  15. I don't think you will get much disagreement with that. But I am talking about many other things, like travel, curtailed recreational activities, sports, events, concerts, etc, etc.
  16. FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    I personally think that it's not government that should mandate masks and social distancing.. Government should RECOMMEND masks and social distances and businesses should implement whatever they think that is necessary to keep their customers and employees safe. I'm not a fan of government mandates but I 100% support businesses implementing mask and social distancing requirements. Most major chains have implemented those requirements and as I said, I 100% support that and I wear a mask when entering their business. As a customer, you have the choice to shop in a store that has those requirements or go to one that doesn't. It's called individual responsiblity. I to believe that the role of government in such situation is to protect those who can't protect themselves like elderly persons or people with conditions. Get supplies delivered to them contact free etc.. Test staff in nursing homes and test staff members etc.
    COVID19 is about as lethal to a healthy person younger than 70 years old than the flu.. COVID19 is actually MUCH LESS LETHAL TO KIDS THAN THE FLU!!! I'm a statistics guy and it appears that people like me who don't have any conditions and are not too old yet have about the same or lower risk to die from COVID19 than dying from the flu. I had the flu twice in the last 20 years and didn't even stay in bed.. Of course, high risk groups like smokers, those who had strokes, heart attacks, diabetis, untreated high blood pressure need to take SEVERE precaution as also those over 70 year old. However, healthy kids and adults don't have a lot to worry about with COVID19.
    R P likes this.
  17. First, I've seen to many people just flat out refusing to wear a mask. So no! Apparently there is a lot of people out there giving a s*** about caring about each other.

    Yes, restricting travel etc doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, and I don't think that was the purpose, (of course lockdown being an exception).

    Restrictions now are because of people not using masks or practicing social distancing. Because of people refusing to do that, is why the economy will rebound more slowly, people will struggle longer and restrictions are and will be in place for longer. It's that simple but I'm sure there will be people arguing that.

    BTW, numbers in Germany are going up again. They were down, almost zero! Actually zero in some states. Why? Because it's travel season and people are going to places and practicing less social distancing and less mask/hygiene.
  18. Yup, here in BC, cases are creeping up again, as more travel is happening. What surprises me is the daily reports of covid cases found on airplanes passing through Vancouver. I thought they were all supposed to be thoroughly screened before boarding. Obviously not, despite the airlines trying to say it is safe to fly. We were down to very low new cases, and no community outbreaks for a while. But that seems to be changing now. I would not be surprised to see another major spike here soon.

    Like I said, I am not as optimistic anymore these days...
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  19. ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    And my point is that case rates are far lower in most of the rest of the industrial world. New Zealand recently declared that it is covid-free. They are playing baseball (with crowds) in Taiwan. There are examples from all over. Some countries are reopening schools, restaurants and bars, with some controls. Life is fairly normal - everywhere except for the U.S. In the meantime, people in the U.S. can't even travel abroad. We can't even go to Canada, Mexico or Bermuda. I don't even want to fly domestically under the current circumstances.

    Bars and restaurants around here tried to open, and then the staff got sick, and they shut down again. I have doubts that schools will fully open in the fall in many areas. And if the schools aren't open, then parents need to work from home, or can't even leave home to go to work. You might say that kids aren't as badly hit, and while that may be true, there are still fatalities. And if you try and open schools, then the teachers and bus drivers will be exposed, and they aren't kids. Once the teachers get sick, then school gets cancelled.

    Voluntary anything just doesn't work. There are too many people that just ignore the request or think that whatever they want to do is more important, or they find it inconvenient. If all you do is ask people to comply, the case rates will never go down until a vaccine becomes available.

    We were sort of on a good path up until mid-May, and then a lot of things just got reopened without listening to any of the experts.
    Clamps and Esprit1st like this.
  20. FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    I still have about $1500 in credit with Swoop to fly to Edmonton.. They didn't refund my money.. They only gave me a credit and now, they don't even have flights to Canada at all as the border is still closed.. We hope that by October, the border is open again... Early October is a nice time for the National Parks..
  21. The U.S. has under 5% of the world's population and nearly 25% of COVID-19 deaths

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