ACC: hands on steering wheel nag

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by ehatch, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. ehatch

    ehatch Active Member

    The Culver City Model S NTSB investigation started me thinking about how my Kona EV nags me to place my hands on the steering wheel when I HAVE my hands on the steering wheel.The NTSB excerpts from the crash being shared by articles from media like enclosed CNET below have me concerned the OEM's algorithm programming, sensors don't match real world use.[1][2] In my Kona, I lightly hold my steering wheel at the 10,and 2,or a combination of the 8,and 2...Whether using ACC, or just driving without it activated due to our constant LKA being on. I receive the nag steering wheel hold not detected,LKA is off... until I literally death grip a portion of the steering wheel.

    What IF I was in a crash during a scenario where my hands were ON the steering wheel,but Hyundai's algorithm ,sensors don't recognize the pressure as it's below THEIR set threshold?

    My hope,as autonomy advances,the OEMs will update, improve their steering wheel algorithm,and sensors to "sense" a normal pressure range between men,and women. Understanding there will be drivers who want to "hack" the system to defeat them. This is different than having incorrect data. The patent link for steering wheel with hand pressure sensor document's interesting, reference: 0038, 0039, 0041.[3]

    1." Even worse, his hands weren't on the wheel at all for the last 3 minutes and 41 seconds before the crash."

    2. Autopilot was engaged in the crash of a Tesla Model S into a firetruck in LA, NTSB says

    3. Steering wheel with hand pressure sensing
  2. Does the Kona actually have pressure sensors in the steering wheel or does just detect rotational movement like in the Tesla? I suspect its the latter.
  3. sosmerc

    sosmerc New Member

    How does having Active Cruise Control have anything to do with hands on the wheel? Or is this something new and the new cars (for safety reasons) now have automatic alert sensors for ANYTIME your hands are off the wheel and the car is moving? My 2017 Volt has ACC and I use it all the time....never have gotten any kind of alert or warning for not having hands on the gentle nags you if you are drifting out of lane, but nothing else.
  4. EnerG

    EnerG Active Member

    I too have experienced this nag a few times when my hands were on the wheel. You bring up a very good point about the crash and black box data that would be false. Hyundai must be made aware of this and posdibly the NTSB.

    This relates to the Active Lane Keep Assist. It can detect minute movement of the steering angle. The problem is if you drive perfectly the car thinks you have your hands off of the wheel for too long a time.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    electriceddy and ehatch like this.
  5. KonaTom

    KonaTom Active Member

    I believe it only issues the warning when LKA is activated, not cruise control.
  6. ehatch

    ehatch Active Member

    @apu , from my ACC ,and LKA experience, the Kona has sensors. I had to "death grip" the steerting wheel at the 10,and 2 for sure to turn the hands not detected alert off. Even though my hands were ON the steering wheel. Interesting enough, I can just grip extra tight on any portion of the wheel when the alert happens,and the system "stutters" as it abruptly turns on/off simultaneously it seems. "Movement" detection, LKA does technically move the Kona's steering wheel to keep it bouncing in between the lanes. North America got short changed, LFA was omitted, along with the auto close mirrors o_O LFA would keep the Kona centered.

    @sosmerc , read the article I enclosed: 1." Even worse, his hands weren't on the wheel at all for the last 3 minutes and 41 seconds before the crash."
    NTSB looked at the driver's control of the vehicle pre crash,which includes hands on the steering wheel. When you have the semi autonomous assists,some drivers abuse the technology.When you use AP, ACC, you can take your hands off the steering wheel as the vehicle equipped with the technology "drives itself" for a preset time before it sends alerts for you to take control of the steering wheel. Kona has LKA on ALL the time,thus the same steering wheel nag/alert will appear on the dash in front of the driver when it "thinks"your hands aren't on the steering wheel. Why I wrote what I wrote. Kona's steering wheel nag allows for longer hands off than Tesla. Volt,context, how long have you kept your hands off the steering wheel?

    I have had my hands ON the steering wheel,and it nags/alerts me to place my hands on the wheel is the point of concern,my post. I don't want to be blamed for a crash when I was properly using the vehicle.
  7. ehatch

    ehatch Active Member

    Issue, the Kona's LKA is permanently ON in the N.Am. Kona. It initiates at ~ 65km/ 40 miles.
  8. The Kona does not detect your "hands on the wheel"! The only thing it detects, is slight pressure that you apply against the ACC trying to keep the car in the lane. That being said, you could use your knee against the bottom of the steering wheel to make ACC think you are holding the steering wheel.
    I also get the warning once in a while when it's a straight stretch of road and basically no steering is required. Just give it a little nudge to the left or right and you're good.
    If you understand how the system works, it's not magic and you don't have to death-grip the wheel. If you let your left or right hand, or a finger rest in the corner of the spoke and wheel it is most of the time enough pressure for it to keep quiet.
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  9. Very easy to disengage by pushing the button over the charge connector unlock/lock button ( the one with the picture of a car between lines).
    It will come on automatically upon restart so you must push the button every time you drive the vehicle.
    I turn it off quite regularly, sometimes the sun angle shining into the camera deactivates it also on tight turning roads.
    ehatch likes this.
  10. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you can deactivate it permanently in the settings menu under driver assistance!?
    ehatch likes this.
  11. Yes you can also do that, but pushing the button while driving is a lot easier.(unless you want it permanently disabled)
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  12. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    Apart from confusing ACC with LKA, you are correct. The system monitors driver input and issues a warning when it hasn't had any for a while. The slightest nudge will prevent or cancel the warning.
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  13. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    LKA is turned on and off by the button, period. In settings you can change the level of assistance. See p. 5-83 of the Canadian manual.
  14. Haha, you're right. Too many appreciations to juggle around with.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
  15. victor_2019

    victor_2019 Active Member

    yes the kona is very annoying with this warning.

    I get the freaking warning all the time even though I always have the hands on the steering wheel.

    As opposed to the honda clarity which only gives me the warning when I don't actually have the hands on the steering.
    I was playing around with the Clarity lane keeping features in the beginning and it warned me after about 30-60 seconds when I didn't have my hands on, but I never got a warning on the clarity when I'm driving it normally.

    I drive the kona the same way as I drive my clarity and I get warnings on the kona almost every time I drive the car.
  16. Strange, as I can't remember ever getting that warning in this car. And I have LKA on all the time, although not the Active mode.
  17. victor_2019

    victor_2019 Active Member

    Mine is in active mode, perhaps that makes a difference
  18. I did try Active a couple times on trips. But with the mountains here, it didn't work that well for me,... didn't hold the lane on curves.
  19. ehatch

    ehatch Active Member

    I would rather turn it on,and have it off otherwise to idiot proof it for me.
  20. ehatch

    ehatch Active Member

    The issue I was highlighting is the fact I have "input" via my hands gripping the steering wheel.Yet the vehicle tells me it cannot detect my hands on the steering wheel. The exposure to drivers if we were in an accident,and the data shows we ARE at fault when we're not. It's immaterial to the issue I have for being falsely liable of "distracted,or inattentive" driving if you choose to use your knee,a tennis ball,or any other "defeat,hack" to have the car "think"your hands are on the steering wheel.

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