The memory effect...

Discussion in 'General' started by Martin Williams, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Active Member

    You complaining about me being disingenuous has to be the most perfect example I've ever seen of someone complaining about the mote in the other fellow's eye while ignoring the beam in his own eye. Compared to attempting to have a real debate with you, nailing Jell-O to a wall is bog easy. Apparently you consider it the moral equivalent of eating babies to ever acknowledge that anyone disagreeing with you ever has a valid point.

    I certainly regret trying to engage you in meaningful dialogue, because you make that impossible.
  2. It seems 'meaningful dialogue' means different things to different people.

    I have stuck to discussing the content of your posts rather than attacking you personally, and will continue to do so, however.

    You are, of course, equally free to adopt your style of debate too.
  3. Kendalf

    Kendalf Member

    Martin, it seems to me that you were disingenuous in creating a thread purportedly about a problem with remembering to charge an EV and then turning it into a soapbox questioning the enthusiasm for and growth of plug-in EVs. Plug-in EVs are certainly not the best fit for all people, but they work great for some, in the same way that FCVs work great for others. You seem to have greater enthusiasm for FCVs and depending on your particular situation, it may work better for you.

    Personally, I'm very enthusiastic about fuel cell vehicles. I waited three years for the planned growth in H2 fueling infrastructure as I wanted to get the (original) Clarity FCV, only to see a number of "planned" stations never materialize. And I'm in Southern California, one of the prime H2 regions in the US. There is still only a single H2 station within a 35 minute driving radius of both home and work for me. On Sunday, a fire on the H2 delivery truck for this station led to this station shutting down, and it remains shut down today. If I depended on a FCV for my daily commute and happened to be low on fuel, this would have been problematic. So while I appreciate FCVs in theory, the actual implementation of the H2 infrastructure has not reached the level of practicality for my area.
  4. I would question your accusation of 'disingenuous'. I may have wandered onto my soapbox but I didn't pretend to misunderstand anyone to promote my argument which is what disingenuous is all about. Any misunderstanding was genuine.

    It's good to know I'm not the only one who believes that FCVs have a future, and I am sorry to hear about a filling station near you closing down rather than opening up. My argument has always been about the future, however, and I believe the necessary infrastructure will come. (I wonder if mobile filling stations are a possibility?)

    I can see that ownership of an FCV now would have given you problems, but I imagine that might be true of any early adopter of new technology. Some of the early Leaf buyers are probably finding the limited mileage is giving them problems too. And the first buyers of early ICE's had to buy their fuel from pharmacists by the bottle and struggle with cranking their engines before self-starting was developed.
  5. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Active Member

    Quoting from my copy of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary -- Tenth Edition:


    lacking in candor; also: giving a false appearance of simple frankness: calculating
    Cited from the dictionary I keep at my desk for reference, and not cherry-picked in any way.

    Generally speaking, I think that if a debate descends into arguing over the definition of words, it's a very strong indication that the dialogue has gone far past any meaningful exchange of ideas. But in this case, citing the actual dictionary definition appears appropriate. I'm not going to engage in any further argument over what "disingenuous" actually means. If someone else wants to literally argue with the dictionary, then I'll get out of the way.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 9:58 PM
  6. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Active Member

    Altho I note that it's an oxymoron to call anything mobile a "station", nonetheless there are (or at least were) what are described as mobile hydrogen fueling "stations". Toyota has sometimes used those to supplement the H2 fuel supply in southern California, since the build-out of H2 fueling stations has fallen so woefully short of what the California Fuel Cell Partnership promised. It appears to me that, as the years pass, the reality is diverging more and more widely from the promises of the CFCP. This should not be a surprise to anyone who prefers to look at things as they really are, rather than engaging in wishful thinking, given that these false promises are coming from those who are -- still! -- actively promoting the "hydrogen economy" hoax.

    From October 2015: "Toyota Provides Mobile Half-Fill Hydrogen Refuel Stations For Mirai In US While Waiting On Infrastructure"
  7. As for filling my ice, I open an app and say 'hey bring me gas overnight while I sleep' and the good lord giveth.
  8. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    That reminds me of how good at least one of the celebrity owners of the Clarity FCEV had it when it first came out. Honda would actually have the car flat bedded from her (Jaime Lee Curtis, IIRC) house and take it to be filled up and return it again.

    You'd think a mobile service would have been easier, in this case.
  9. I would imagine it might be a good idea to have some way of rescuing drivers of FCEVs who run out of gas. Possibly a compressor and a cylinder on the breakdown truck??

    Incidentally, this is not the first time vehicles powered by hydrogen, albeit with carbon monoxide added, have run on British roads. During WW2, petrol was unavailable, due to the German blockade. The high-tech workaround was to strap a large rubberised canvas bag to the roof of the car and run the engine from coal gas taken from the gas mains! An early form of 'plug-in', it seemed to work well.

    I know from my own experience how easy this is to do. Some years ago I accompanied a neighbour on a trip to Wales to look at a boat he was thinking of buying. We traveled in his beat-up van. En route, we ran out of petrol. Unfazed, he rummaged in the back of the van, emerging with a large cylinder of - I think propane or butane - which he parked between us. A rubber tube ran from it to the air filter intake where it was attached with gaffer tape. I was given the job of regulating it by turning the valve up or down. To my amazement, it took us there and back with no problem. I can't imagine what it did to the engine, mind you!

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