Kona EV Winter Problems

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by Gunther Rosenstock, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Gunther Rosenstock

    Gunther Rosenstock New Member

    We have the Kona EV for 3 weeks now and found out that our Kona does not like the cold at all.
    The first day when we bought it at Jim Pattinson in North Van it charted up to 458 km and impressed the hell out of me. We love driving it. The second day in Vancouver it charged to 426km. I thought if I get my 415km range I will be happy. We need 415 km so we can go back and forth from Vancouver to the Cariboo where we live. Now after 3 days we drove it in -25 C it did well charged to 412km. But then after the fourth day it stopped at 386km and it dropped every day more and charges now only to 340km after 3 weeks.
    We have a Bosch wall charger installed by an electrician and we called him to make sure it is all perfectly good. Charger was doing good. Now the next issue was the range drop. Even so we had now only 340km range once we left our heated garage and turned the heat on the range dropped another 60 km. Now we only had 280 km range. I thought I give my sales men a call to inform him about the range drop. He just told us to go to a dealer. Well we live 3 hours away from the dealer and the range was not enough. I thought I go and take it on a drip to Williams Lake which is 120 km one way. I believed we could easy do it with a range of 340km range. I got stranded at -24C on the Highway and had to call a tow truck. I got towed home. So even so it showed enough range on the way home it dropped 27 km in two minutes at the end of our trip which is why I had to call a tow truck. We will now get it to a service centre I will keep you updated. So far I can say that the car is wonderful in every way but the Range. But with only 230km range to be expected in the winter I will have no use for the car and could have bought a cheaper one. So let's hope they can fix it at the service centre.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2019
  2. CJC

    CJC Well-Known Member

    Sorry for your troubles, but my understanding is that you would need to calculate 25-30% less range in winter conditions. You have to also consider how fast you drive and your style of driving as that impacts as well. And pre-warming the battery helps too. I would suspect in the most severe weather months you will have to plan charge stops when you go into places like Williams Lake. Yes a pain but likely necessary. Would it be possible to change your route to hit chargers in Merritt coming and going? They have super charger there. Williams Lake does have a level 2 charger. It will be a whole different story on range once Spring happens. I guess it is typical that the dealerships didn't talk about how cold weather affects ev's. I know when we bought our first hybrid C-Max and the a C-Max PHEV all hell brought loose due to the winter mileage numbers. It was something we could live with as we don't do the driving that you do. I'm sure I would not like breaking up my trip from North Van to the Cariboo by sitting and charging in the winter. Let us know how things go. But I do notice that in Norway it seems a way of life to stop at chargers and closely compute routes, and have a meal while charging seems to be a way of life there. You might want to read some of Bjorn Nyland's reviews on the Kona EV in Norway on youtube. He has lots of good info and comments.

    I found one video driving a Kia Niro EV (very similar to Kona EV) in the winter and some of his comments on winter and speed etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
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  3. Canada Dan

    Canada Dan Member

    Temperature makes a huge difference, and much of that is because of heating the cabin. If you play with the heat controls, such as turning the fan up high and then down low you will see the estimated range change considerably. I did a trip of 240km Saturday in -4 to -8 temperatures (mostly closer to the -4 end) and returned home to 88km range left. The roads were bare and dry; I'm sure I'd have used more of the battery if there was snow because of the extra rolling resistance. If you dress warmly and use the seat heaters you can get away with a cooler cabin and increase your range. Not much you can do about -24 temperatures though.
     
  4. CJC

    CJC Well-Known Member

  5. Gunther Rosenstock

    Gunther Rosenstock New Member

    Thank you for the nice words. We had a Kia Soul and are aware of the range issue which is why we traded it for the Kona. We are aware about winter conditions and how it drains the battery, Hyundai reported a 15% loss. Well that I knew bur the problem I have is I can't even charge it anymore to more than 335 km. So I loose already 80 km. We have heated garage. I understand the concept of loosing range but should it not at least charge to the 415km range promised by Hyundai?
     
  6. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    I believe the system estimates range based on recent performance, and the issue is unlikely to be a failure to charge to full capacity. The 415 km is an EPA rating for typical range, not a promise. That said, the Kona may not be fit for your needs in a cold climate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  7. Vanryan

    Vanryan Member

    Here is a new video from today that does a good job of what I think is happening to you:
     
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  8. CJC

    CJC Well-Known Member

    Gunther I am not a really technical EV person, but I do think driving speed and reduced outside temperature is huge as I see in the videos from Norway and Sweden that they are always tracking range compared to speed driven and outside temperature. And I think the differences you see in range prediction now is purely a guess based on your driving habits and current temperatures--the car is tracking that. If you look at your actually battery, it will still show a full charge. It is just a guess of how much range you are likely to get based on what it is experiencing right now. You could experiment and see what I mean. Drive your car in Eco+ for a week at slower speeds and see what happens.
     
  9. Gunther Rosenstock

    Gunther Rosenstock New Member

    Thank you for your replies. Before I bought the Kona I did my homework and again I am fine with loosing some range during the cold. I did the slow driving turned the heat off and so on but still loosing cositandly range now to 328km. My neighbor has a Tesla does mostly highway driving never lost even 1 km when he charges it goes up to to the promised 486 km. I guess Tesla is just more advanced in their technology. What if it goes down to 210 km I should just accept that to my drivind style or the cold. When I studied the Kona based on test drives in -20 in Norway they reported only a 15 % range loss. I loise now 15 km every day and drive on Eco 3 heat off. Sorry but it is not acceptable. If that is the truth then people are giving complete wrong informed about the range of a $56000 vehicle and it should be more in the class of a 200 km range car going for $30000. Tesla sell the Model 3 for $20000 more but at least they are keeping their range promise.
    I wil post a utune video next week to make peope outside the lower mainland aware of this issue.
     
  10. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    I don't want to prolong the discussion or convince you that the Kona is the right car for you, but I think you are misjudging what you see. From what I read, during charging the Tesla estimates the range based on a fixed rate of consumption. In other words, a full charge will always show the same figure. This is not the case with the Kona, which makes a stab at the initial range by taking other factors into consideration, chiefly recent performance, which in your case is severely affected by cold. There is no concept of charging up to a promised range, although Tesla offers this as a comforting fiction. I doubt if your neighbor is actually getting anything like 486 km under the same conditions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  11. Gunther Rosenstock

    Gunther Rosenstock New Member

    I wish I could confirm but I drove the Trsla to the coast and it needed no charge up (423km) So it is not fiction.
    Hyundai promises a loss of 15% in Norway winter driving. So far it is a 40% loss for me and since there is no fast charger around I am limited again to not use the car for long range drive which is what I bought it for. So 0 stars for the long range Winter driving.
     
  12. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    If the Kona is estimating 328 km, that is 20% less than the rated (by EPA) 415 km. I'm not sure what you mean by losing 15 km a day, unless the car is continuing to revise the estimate downward based on continuing performance loss due to increasing cold.
     
  13. CJC

    CJC Well-Known Member

    This article has an interesting discussion at the end of the article. I think the calculations for loss at -17 C were around 25% in Norway, and you have been enduring -24 C which is significant difference. https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-range-test-in-winter-17c-video/ I am sorry that the Kona is not going to work out for you. It must be very disappointing.
     
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  14. electriceddy

    electriceddy Well-Known Member

    325 km @-17c vs 500 km @20c+ (other Bjorn vids) translates to 35% range reduction.
    Personally I find this to be pretty accurate (driving EV since Sept 2013)
    Even a little optimistic, I usually advise potential EV owners to expect (plan for) a 40 to 50% reduction in range depending on driving preferences etc.
     
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  15. CJC

    CJC Well-Known Member

    Yes I agree. We read a few articles that indicate if it is deadly cold you are close to losing half in range. But come Spring all is good.
     
  16. zoominbc

    zoominbc Active Member

    I read an article that suggested a 40% loss in Canadian winter conditions (-20C) can be expected. I think the biggest issue is trying to stop the battery from getting cold soaked. If you can charge in a garage, even if it's only closer to freezing (0C), that will help. Here's a useful blog post from FLO. Hope this is useful for you.
    Li Ion chemistry typically stops working all together at about -40C.
     
  17. Brennan Raposo

    Brennan Raposo Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I'm sorry you're experiencing this. My Kona, so far has been charging consistently to about 340-390 km in this cold weather. Ontario has had one of the coldest winters on record. I do notice that when I had winter mode accidentally turned off - my car was charging up to over 400km to 90%. Have you tried turning winter mode off? Especially if you charge in a garage, you may not need the active heating of the battery? The length of your drive alone will keep the battery warm.
     
  18. Oilberta

    Oilberta Member

    Well it had to happen. One month ownership and 150 km; went down to the garage yesterday morning, and the passenger rear tire was flat. A drywall screw was sticking out at an angle. Found out that Hyundai has 5-year warranty (lots of fine print though) for roadside service. They subcontracted the pickup to AMA (Alberta Motor Assn). A dealer courtesy shuttle picked me up in the afternoon to take me to recover my car (got a free car wash) :cool:.

    Off to dealer.JPG
     
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  19. zoominbc

    zoominbc Active Member

    did they replace the tire or just patch it?
     
  20. Brennan Raposo

    Brennan Raposo Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I second this question lol.
    Considering someone’s trying to sell 4 brand new Nexans for $100, I certainly hope they’d give you a new tire ahah
     

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