PHEVs emissions higher then the automakers state. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/08/major-plug-in-hybrid-cars-pollute-more-than-official-measures-suggest https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/hybrid-carmakers-accused-of-con-over-zero-emissions-claims
Yes PHEVs are the "worst of both worlds" and would (sadly) be better as a non-plug in hybrid. The gas combustion is compromised usually as a FWD only (i.e. Ford Kuga/Escape PHEV) and the electric only performance is pathetic (smaller motor and reduced electric only range). I totally get why PHEVs were to address the European auto carbon tax, but EVs have some such a long way! How would you like to be PHEV'd at the Level 2 free charging station?
Funny you should ask: My ex-wife called this morning about her portable EVSE not working. She was frustrated by the occupied, various free L2 charging stations. I reminded her of the free one I maintain behind Propst Discount Drugs. I don't resent PHEVs at free or fee L2 chargers as I've been one in the past. After all, I'm more anti-gasoline than anti-PHEV. There are lessons to learn from a PHEV and they will in a handful of decades, a forgotten technology to have in museums next to EV1s. Bob Wilson
I have a Sonata PHEV, and I have used the free L2 chargers when they are available. Note that this car doesn't have an electric cabin heater. What I find disappointing is to see a Hyundai Ioniq 5 using one of the fee L2 chargers and parked in a regular parking spot when there are dedicated charging spots available.
If an EV was carrying a gasoline generator in the trunk with a NEMA 14-50 adapter, I'd still consider it an EV. That being said, I'd also consider your i3 REX as a full electric vehicle (with an attached gasoline generator).
A full EV doesn’t work for everyone, yet. I use my PHEV and do nearly all the driving in EV since we are close to home. Then on long road trips we get around 40mpg and charge overnight at hotels. For us, it works and is less polluting 95% of the time. If we could afford a new $65k EV, we’d probably get one. In the meantime, we’re doing what we can with what we could find in the back corner of a used car lot.
Not everyone everywhere can use a full EV yet. Here on Hawaii Island the charging infrastructure is thin enough that if you can't charge at home it's really difficult. PHEVs will be needed for a few more years.
OK, should we pull the plug on PHEVs that don't come with an electric cabin heater and don't have at least 40 miles of electric range? I have a Sonata PHEV which doesn't come with an electric cabin heater, and has less then 40 miles of electrical range. As such, I have to use the gas engine from fall to spring to supply cabin heat. Should this vehicle ever been sold?
There's a spectrum here. At one end (someday will be) the ultra-efficient, electric Aptera and at the other end are 15 mpg luxury SUVs. Your Sonata is closer to the Aptera than to a 15 mpg luxury SUV, so it's a big step in the right direction. My Clarity PHEV with its battery-powered heater and 47-mile EV range is another step closer to the Aptera. My all-electric MINI Cooper SE has a heat-pump and emits no carbon, so even closer to the Aptera, but many detractors claim this vehicle should never have been sold because its EPA range is a meager 110 miles. However, I'm glad my MINI doesn't have a big, heavy, 200-mile battery because what I wanted was the best-handling BEV to drive around town.
The lack of a PTC is a big oversight. My Bronco Sport with a gas engine has a PTC heater and the blower blows hot air before the coolant temp warms up. It eliminates the need to remote start the vehicle to warm up the cabin.
It's time for someone to get down off their snobby-*ss high horse. I'm 100% EV now, but I miss my Sonata. I was 21 miles to and from work. I actually ran out the fuel every 6 months on purpose. There was a free charger at at a Sprouts I used to frequent about 7 miles from home. Make it the last stop on the weekend round, get just enough juice to make it home. PHEV's are fantastic, even if the range is limited. The Sonata is a pretty big car compared to my NiroEV and KonaEV. I had a fully loaded Limited, and it was a pleasure to ride in. Unless I went on a trip, I put a tank of fuel in every 4-6 months.
If I had known about the lack of a electric cabin heater, I would never bought the Sonata. Plus to add injury, the gas engine is a piece of junk.
Sorry, you sound like a sour grape. All electric cars suck in really cold weather, and even worse in a cold pouring rain. All manufacturers are going to propagandize their products. That means they want to always present them in the best light, and they all do it. No manufacturer will advertise their failings that would be stupid, and would generally make your product look worse against the competition that does the same thing. My sister liked my Sonata so much she bought if from me. She is in Rexford MT. Not exactly a "warm climate". It's an older model, and the batteries are a little tired, down to about 20mi. She tells me she doesn't put gas in it unless she drives to Kalispell. I'm not sure where the "engine is a piece of junk" is coming from. If you felt this way about the car why on earth did you buy it? Here's a thought... sell it and get something more to your liking. A 2014 Leaf will go 30 odd miles with a full charge in a cold wet rain with the heater blaring. EV's are decidedly sub-optimal in cold northern and wet climates, at least until the next big improvement in batteries hits (Aluminium ION or maybe Sodium, I see it in 5 years). I'd go with a PHEV up north before an EV any day if I did much in the way of travel. When you can plug in at home cheaply or free when out and about, it's a win, and when you can't you have a hybrid that gets 40MPG. Further standing in cold blowing icy rain, wrestling with the stupid CCS boa constrictor fighting you, in a sketchy Wal-Mart parking lot, in the dark, in a cold drizzly sleet/rain, while on a trip, pushing between two 130 mile EA charging stops, with a supposed 239 mile range, and arriving with the dashboard screaming to get power, and the heater completely off to save power, and PRAYING the charging station was operational, is not real fun. At least once I was plugged in, I could turn the heat back on . . . Boy was I missing my Sonata that day. But your right... Maybe we should just ban technology that saves a ton of fuel and just works. Makes perfect sense to me. Side Note: If it's cold, wet, and rainy cut your mileage estimates in half. That means if you have a charging gap over 100 miles you need to really slow down, and tweak the cabin temp as low as you can stand it. 65MPH in rain/sleet with water/ice on the road just kills an EV.
If I had known about the lack of a electric cabin heater, I wouldn't have bought the car. No PHEV should be sold without an electric cabin heater!!!!!!! Gas engine repairs so far on a car with less then 20,000 miles. 1. Engine oil cooler for several hundred dollars. 2. EGR valve not covered under the emissions warranty, several hundred dollars. 3. Three crankcase sensors covered under warranty, car had to be towed. 4. Part attached to EGR value replaced, covered under the emissions warranty. 5. One coil pack repair with three others replaced under goodwill after pointing out the service bulletin. 6. Multiple service bulletin updates. Consumer Reports show the gas engine a solid black dot. My experience is the gas engine is a piece of junk. My plan is to trade it in after the emissions warranty expires.
PHEV's are a good solution for many people. We're not going to make the transition overnight. I'd probly buy a rav4 prime if I could get one at MSRP
Let me explain: Electric cars have less wasted energy so temperature effects are more noticeable than ICE or hybrid drivers might notice: Denser air - quantified by density altitude, cold air reduces highway speed, over 45 mph, performance because of the increase in air density. My early Prius studies showed a direct relationship. Boyle's Law - as the tire air cools, the pressure goes down leading to higher rolling drag most noticeable below 45 mph. Battery thermal management - it is important that the battery be in efficient temperature ranges based on the chemistry ... not too cold or hot. So it becomes important to precondition the car while connected to the grid. At the same time, bring the cabin to a comfortable range. Bob Wilson
As someone who lives in the coldest northern climate, my MINI Cooper SE with a "mere" 110-mile range has been outstanding in temperatures as low as -30 ºF. I do lose about 15% range due to heating the cabin (or more depending on how warm I want it), but if I drive in arctic weather with no heat my efficiency will remain well over 4 mi/kWh.
So you had a bad experience. I cannot say the same. But your bad experience with a PHEV does not mean we shou,d stop making them. "C'mon man" . .
I noted a 40% range loss at 65MPH in a heavy drizzle for about 2 hours on I-10 in LA and TX. YMMV ;-). Cold itself, not as much, but the cabin on the Niro is significantly larger than a Mini. Best ticket is to blast the butt warmers and turn the cabin as low as you can stand it. Gotta have some defrost.
