Has anyone figured out the Electric/Gas $ break even point for the Clarity?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Mark W, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    With the price of gasoline down to about $2.29 where I live now (CT), and the price of electricity at over 20 cents/kwh, I think I'm fairly close to the point of where I do not have much $ savings driving EV vs. HV. Has anyone taken the time to do calculations related to this? I guess what is needed is knowing the miles/kwh that the clarity gets vs. MPG in HV mode, and allowing people to plug in what they pay for electricity and gas in their area.

    Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the way the car drives in EV mode anyway, so even if gas dropped down to $2/gallon, I would still drive in EV mode as much as I can. I also understand that if you're not in CA or the Northeast, your electricity rates are much lower than mine.
     
  2. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    For us $2.00 is the break-point. In California we're not likely to reach that low, current lowest price is $2.75. Our electricity is $0.15/kwh.

    It's complicated though by the fact that we have a solar roof used to run the house and charge the car. Weekends our trips are few and short. On weekdays our trips are all EV but long compared to weekends.
     
  3. su_A_ve

    su_A_ve Active Member

    My rates are going up from $0.10 to $0.15 and that's just supply. Delivery is another $0.03. The agreement our township had with a supplier ended and we are back on our own. Gas is down to $2.15 and even though EV range is 31 miles, I'm lucky if I actually get 25 specially if temps are below zero.
     
  4. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    I forget all the math but it's not hard to figure out. I know with my electric rate of approx 10.3 cents/KWh, I calculated my break even to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.50/gallon. So if your electricity is nearly double at .20 per kwh, I believe your break even occurred some time ago, as it is likely just a hair shy of $3/gallon....maybe $2.70-ish for you?

    In many parts of the country right now, this car is officially more economical to run on gasoline than on electric.
     
    228ra likes this.
  5. Agzand

    Agzand Active Member

    Currently cheap gas is $2.99 in the Bay Area. I was spending about $150 per month on gas. If you switch to an EV electric rate plan and switch your high usage electricity items to off-peak hours (laundry, dishwasher), you can run Clarity at much lower costs, maybe $50 per month.
     
  6. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    Here is a good rule of thumb that I use...

    In electric mode, it takes around 31 kWh to drive 100 miles.
    In gas mode (HV), assume you get 45 MPG.
    From this, you can calculate a few interesting things (given a cost for electricity, and/or gas):

    1. Cost per 100 miles (EV) = 31 kWh * $_per_kWh = 31 * $0.20 = $6.20 per 100 mi [using Mark W's numbers]
    2. Cost per 100 miles gas (HV) = $_per_gal / 45mpg *100 mi = $2.29 / 45 *100 = $5.09 per 100 mi [using Mark W's numbers]

    3. To get a cost of gas that breaks even with EV:
    $Gas = 31 kWh / 100 mi * $_per_kWh * 45 mpg = 31 /100 mi * $.20 * 45 = $2.79 [using Mark's numbers]
    ie: Electric better if gas exceeds $2.79 in Mark's scenario.

    We are lucky because in my area, electricity is $0.12 / kWh
    So my break-even is 31 / 100 * 0.12 * 45 = $1.67
    ie: electric better if gas exceeds $1.67 (it is currently around $2.15) in my scenario !

    Here is how I see it, graphically:

    upload_2019-1-21_19-28-9.png

    Comments welcome
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  7. David in TN

    David in TN Active Member

    I feel really blessed seeing the numbers that others have posted.

    My electricity is $0.09/kwh, and gasoline is running $1.82/gal

    Oh -- should I mention that my wife pays our electric bill? ;-)
     
    MPower likes this.
  8. petteyg359

    petteyg359 Active Member Subscriber

    That electricity price is what your region gets for paying for the scam that is a "capacity market" :p Vote against it if you get the chance.
     
  9. MPower

    MPower Active Member

    My guess is its Tennessee Valley Authority rate.
     
  10. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    I'm in Indiana and pay $0.103. I belong to an REMC which is a non-profit cooperative electric provider. If they happen to overcharge us and later calculate that they made a profit, they send us a pro-rated check in the mail at the end of the year to bring it back to break-even...in fact I just got a $65 check from them last week. If I consider that refund it actually drops my effective rate over the past year to approx $0.099/kwh. They also give us free LED lightbulbs of all types, free electric water heater maintenance & 50% off replacements, super low cost energy efficiency audits for the home, etc. Lots of benefits that save me even more money. I've lived here 21 years now and am very pleased with service, and rates, and reliability, of our electric utility.

    And our gasoline happens to be averaging about $1.90 at the moment. Been seeing some $1.79 prices in some places like Costco and other discounters. This is more a worldwide supply & demand issue, but I don't think it's any coincidence that Indiana is a big ethanol producer...no matter where anyone stands on the politics of that controversial product, it does help keep our end consumer prices lower in gasoline as well.

    On the low electric rates it's a rural midwest thing for sure, not necessarily capacity market or any regulatory thing. We are indeed a coal mining state, which helps keep rates low. But much of our coal is converting to natural gas now as time passes, and the coal mining is slowing down...many coal plants have converted, or are in the process of converting. AND we also have giant wind turbine farms popping up EVERYWHERE around here now all over our corn and soybean fields, and a few large solar farms. I don't pretend to know how they all interrelate, or how much power comes from each source. But just realize not all utilities are for-profit entities, and not all are just trying to please their stockholders. Mine has no interest in pleasing anyone but its members, because there are no stockholders to push for a profit. Keeps our rates low.

    So yeah our cost of living overall is lower. And lets not forget our Indiana wages are lower too, when comparing to those doing similar jobs closer to the coasts. There's give and take everywhere. I'll let others debate where the true end result of it all lies...I'll just live my life and enjoy the process.

    But those who have grown accustomed to elevated gas and electric prices on the coasts, from large for-profit utilities, may not benefit from low electric and gasoline prices elsewhere...but they indeed exist for various reasons both good and bad, here in the heartland...
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  11. Fast Eddie B

    Fast Eddie B Well-Known Member

    Here in Lenoir City,TN the rate is a tiny bit higher, at 10.05¢ per kWh. Don't know if the TVA is involved, but we have lots of TVA dams in the area generating electricity.
     
  12. Claritydfw

    Claritydfw Member

    Not all for profits charge a high price. Most places in Texas allow you to pick your own provider so the different companies have to compete for customers. I pay .095. Texas as a wholes is a mix of 50% natural gas; 25% nuke and wind power; 25% coal. The coal amount goes up and down depending on the price of natural gas and how many peaker plants are used during extreme temperature changes.

    Unfortunately if your stuck with a municipal owned electric provider you usually have to pay much higher.

    Gas in the DFW area of Texas is around 1.70- 2.00 depending on location and brands.
     
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  13. Claritydfw

    Claritydfw Member

    Out of curiosity did your calculation account for any power loss during charging?
     
  14. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Based on Honda documents shared on this forum, we can figure approximately 92 to 93% efficiency for the on board charger.
    Hope that helps your calculations.
     
    JustAnotherPoorDriver likes this.
  15. Kailani

    Kailani Member

    CT’s high electric rates are a result of two things. The CT legislature mandated that 25% of the electric supply be sourced from renewables, including wind, which receives locked-in rates in some instances as high as $.31/kWh. The 25% mandate went up to 27% on January 1. Renewable energy supplies are limited in New England and, with the mandates, result in a locked in artificial market at prices that support a desired but uneconomical industry. Our utility, Eversource, wants to tap into the booming natural gas supply and is seeking to build a pipeline that would bring gas from the Midwest to New England. Because of NIMBY attitudes from towns and citizens opposed to fracking along the planned route through CT and MA, the company has been unable to get approval to move forward with its plans. Together, the result is a well-intentioned but distorted electricity market. CA has a similar situation. Texas and most states in the Midwest have a more free market which in the present has resulted in lower rates.


    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
     
  16. marshall

    marshall Active Member

  17. marshall

    marshall Active Member

    Here in South Puget Sound the electrical rate is about 8 cents per KWh, gas prices per gallon are currently between $2.59 at Costco and $2.96 at Chevron.
     
  18. PriusGeek

    PriusGeek New Member

    Here in Central Texas, gas is around $1.80. My electric is $.099/kwh. I calculated breakeven at around $1.50/gal. My city (Georgetown) provides electric from 100% renewables, so even it gas gets real cheap, I still expect to run on electric as much as possible. I'm also lucky in that my office provides a free charging station, so I only have to personally pay for about half of my Clarity's electricity. Life is good!
     
  19. izudin

    izudin Member

    You need to know how much energy (energyToChargeBattery [kWh]) you need to charge battery from the minimum to the full, what is your average EV range (rangeEV [mile]) and HV gas mileage (mileageHV [mile/gal]).
    Calculate the ratio energyToChargeBattery * mileageHV / rangeEV

    You will break even when a ratio between gas price (priceGas [$/gal]) and electricity price (priceElec [$/kWh]) is equal to the that number. If the ratio is lower, it is cheaper to run on gas; if higher than electricity is cheaper.

    Break even point:
    priceGas/priceElec = energyToChargeBattery * mileageHV / rangeEV

    Example:
    energyToChargeBattery = 15.3 kWh
    rangeEV =40 miles
    mileageHV = 42 mile/gal
    gasPrice = 2.30 $/gal

    To break even, electricity price should be 2.30 * 40 / (15.3 * 42) = $0.143/kWh.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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  20. izudin

    izudin Member

    Or, with the same numbers as above, and assuming that electricity price is $0.24/kWh (as it is for me in MA)
    the gas price breaking point would be: 0.24 * 15.3 * 42 / 40 = $3.86/gal

    The lower price means it is more economic to run on gas, the higher price means it is more economic to run EV.
     
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