Does the I-Pace compete with the Tesla Model X or 3?

Discussion in 'I-Pace' started by Domenick, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    The I-Pace is the first premium all-electric that's not a Tesla (sorry, BMW i3), and it is, ostensibly, an SUV (I feel it slots into the crossover segment, really). So, would you cross-shop it against a Model X or a Model 3?

    That's the premise of this post on InsideEVs, and it makes some interesting points, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

    At $70,495, the Jag is cheaper than the cheapest Model X and has a bit more range. It's in the same price neighborhood as a loaded Model 3 with AWD, which would have a good bit more range and to my mind, a similar amount of utility.

    Which would you choose?

    My first instinct is to say "none of the above" and go with the Tesla Model S 75D, which starts at just $5,000 above the I-Pace base, is quicker, has better range, and I suspect has much better utility. Plus, Superchargers.

    I haven't driven the Jaguar, but its probably an enjoyable drive. They are planning on racing them, after all. It also looks great inside and out, and it's new, so there's a bit of a novelty factor at play.

    I really want to choose it. I'd probably enjoy owning a loaded Model 3 more, though. It's a little smaller, which isn't a bad thing in my book, and its much greater range and performance is a big plus.

    The Model X 75D? I haven't driven an X, and there are lots of things I like about them. However, the base 75 isn't for me. Great utility, especially in the 4 or 5 -seat configuration, but I don't need a car that big.

    The S 75D? After some pondering, I think I'd prefer the loaded Model 3. The Model S is great, but without all the features of a maxed out 3, the base version can't compete.

    So, what about you? Obviously this is a bit oranges and apples, but if you had to choose, would you prefer to peel your fruit or just bite in?
     
  2. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Hmmm, from a photo of the car, it looks really small, especially in comparison to the size of its wheels.

    [​IMG]

    Contrariwise, comparing wheelbases, I find:

    Jaguar I-Pace wheelbase: 117.7"
    Tesla Model 3 wheelbase: 113.2"

    Does it have oversized wheels?

    Color me confused! :confused:

    * * * * *

    Anyway, if it really is as small as the photo suggests, small even for a compact, or perhaps it's a largish sub-compact, then the answer to "Does the I-Pace compete with the Tesla Model X or 3?" is...

    No. ;)

    But if the wheelbase is actually longer than the TM3, then common sense suggests it might be usefully compared to that car. It absolutely cannot be usefully compared to the Model S. That's more of a contrast than a comparison!
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  3. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    Great Questions, I was interested in the I-Pace, so I flew to NY Auto Show to see it, and I have to say that I amazed at what a beautiful car it is in person. It is definitely a competitor to the larger Tesla's. It is not as big as a Model X, but it is extremely well packaged, and 5 people will be more comfortable in I-Pace then the Model X.

    I decided to order the First Edition I-Pace, which comes fully loaded with almost every available option, other then the 22 inch wheels which I felt will make the ride too harsh, so I went for the 20's. The price came to USD 87,490 which seems like a lot, but when you compare it to a comparable equipped Model X 100D it is $115K, and the Tesla is missing some of I-Pace's useful options like the color head up display that shows the navigation directions. I-Pace also has Mobileye driver assist, and OTA software updates. People who say the I-Pace is small, have not sat in one.

    From a fit and finish standpoint, it is light years better then Tesla, as all of the body gaps were equal, from one side of the car to the other, and front to back. The interior design is beautiful and very pleasing to the eye, and touch. It is simple, but familiar, and the controls all seem to be right where they should be. The I-Pace steering wheel is awesome.

    I did get to talk to a Jaguar engineer at the show and he answered a few technical questions for me, the 240 mile range is preliminary, and based on their testing in the real world from the recommended level of charge (not 100%).

    I also asked quite a few questions about the drive units which he said had been developed as part of the Formula E race car program, and Jaguar testing shows they are more efficient then the Tesla drive unit in both energy efficiency, and mass efficiency, they also have less moving parts, its quite a clever design. The engineer I was speaking with seemed to be very knowledgeable mechanically, he was not not a glorified salesman.

    Now, I am sure the Tesla fans will come after me for posting this, but just hear me out. I think this car is aimed right at the heart of the luxury CUV-SUV market, 5 seat models outsell 7 seat by a huge margin, and this is a great 5 seat model. There are lots of people who have been looking in this range of vehicle but did not like the Tesla Model X (myself included) So this is a very compelling option.

    Unfortunately it is not set up to be a high production car and Jaguar is blown away that they have received nearly 45K pre orders (waymo is 20K) for the car, before even opening it up to the 2 biggest car markets (USA, and China) so their production system will have to be scaled up to meet demand, and this may take years, not months. Their goal is 13 to 15K deliveries this year and 20K next year.

    Finally, this is not compliance car, this thing is going to move as many as they can build, and I think people will be happy when they get to touch and feel it. Tesla killer.... Haha! No... It's just another of the ever growing options which is great for all of us who want EV's....
     
  4. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Dude, that is awesome! Great post about a solid new electric choice.

    45K pre-orders is just nuts! Will be interesting to see how they meet that demand.

    Since you've got your ear to the ground regarding iPace developments, feel free to start threads as you see fit. We certainly want to hear any details about the order fulfillment process you're willing to share.
     
  5. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Glad to know! I've been hoping for some time that some other auto maker would give Tesla some real competition. Perhaps that has finally arrived! Tesla needs competition to keep them on their toes. According to many reports they have already made significant improvements to the average fit-and-finish of the Model 3, but they need to be pushed to improve fit-and-finish quality up to the standards of German auto makers.

    Up the EV revolution!
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  6. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    I have not seen these quality improvements for myself, but at least they fixed the springs on the TM3 so it does not out your dental work on a bumpy road, and they got the rear heated seats working, after 6 months of production. Its progress, but most automakers deliver cars from day 1 that are at least fully functional. Just my .02
     
  7. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    All true. But perhaps if other auto makers had ~550,000 paid reservations at $1000 apiece, they would also rush a new model into production before it was fully developed! :)

    Personally I'll be glad when Tesla stops doing that; when they put a car through as many stages of pre-production as GM does, including allowing for several months of testing between start of production and start of sales. But if you look at it strictly from the viewpoint of business strategy, I'm not at all sure Tesla is doing the wrong thing. A rapidly growing "young Turk" company, one with an amazing growth potential during a disruptive tech revolution, should not use the same business strategy as the legacy auto makers whose markets rarely if ever expand!
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  8. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    AARGH! :eek: :rolleyes: :oops:

    I meant "...cannot usefully be compared to the Model X. That's more of a contrast than a comparison!"

    The I-Pace can be usefully compared to the Model S, which like the I-Pace and unlike the Model X, seats 5 in its standard configuration.

    Based solely on a test ride in a Model S plus what I've seen and read online, I still far prefer the Tesla Model S to anything else, both for looks and for functionality. It's strange that the Model S actually has more useful cargo space than the Model X, but true due to the MX's oddball 2nd row seats. (Even the alternative MX "fold flat" 2nd row seats don't quite fold flat.) I also feel no attraction for the unneeded complexity of the MX's falcon-wing doors. That's a huge violation of the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid!
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    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  9. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    I think there are a couple things that compares I-Pace to Model X is the ground clearance, ride height. Inside though they offer very close to the same floor area, I will give you exact measurements when the I-pace arrives. Model X obviously has much higher ceiling, giving it increased interior volume, but most of that space is wasted as stacking things high only works for certain items to load. Most people never use their SUV more then going to Costco, and hauling people. This is how I see the comparison between the Loaded model I-pace and Model X 100D

    I-Pace 35% lower price, Quicker 0-60, and shorter 60-0 (safer?), smaller size, 700lbs lighter (less raw materials = better for the environment?), tighter turning radius (even though I-Pace has longer wheelbase), tighter handling, higher tech suspension technology, (looks are subjective, but most reviews of I-Pace have it coming out on top), better build quality both inside and out, color head up display with navigation, 800+watt surround sound system, Mobileye driver aid, regular mechanical doors that sound tight when closed, more comfortable interior design.

    Tesla Model X 10 KWH more battery,7 passenger, falcon wing doors, autopilot, 17" MCU, SUPERCHARGING.

    Obviously these lists could go on and on, but this is what I see as the benefits of each vehicle. Notice I made SUPERHARGING caps, because for me that is the best reason to buy a Tesla if you take long trips more then twice a year, or use your EV as your only vehicle. For us SUPERCHARGING is not as important, because we are going to keep our Lexus LX and use that for long drives, or as a spare vehicle. We own a vacation cabin in the mountains where there is often several feet of snow, and the Lexus is like a mountain goat in the deep snow, where as a lower slung EV just does not make as much sense those situations.
     
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  10. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Supercharging is a strong point for Tesla now --it's pretty cool to say to the car, "show me the route to Memphis, TN" and watch it lay out the route with the Supercharging spots you'll need to stop at with the charging time needed -- but it's an edge it won't enjoy forever.

    The iPace can fill to 80% in as few as 40 minutes using a 100 kW DC charger, which is better than anything not built in Fremont at the moment, and 100 kW and higher stations are coming to the US sooner than later, partly thanks to VW's diesel scandal payout funding Electrify America. It also sounds like Jaguar has some amount of charging station routing functionality too.
     
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  11. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    Supercharging is awesome, and I think it is great that Tesla has aggressively built that network. Kudos to Tesla...

    That will be really nice if the CCS network improves, and VW deserves to pay out the rear for the greater good of people. I hope Seattle sees some charging improvement on I-5 and I-90 as that would help lots of people. We might need charging outside a few times a year, but I had a 2012 Volt when they came out, and made the 38 mile range work 98% of the time, I think during my 3 year lease I ran out of power and had to use the ICE half a dozen times. The Ice would start a couple times a year to rotate the gas, but in 3 years and 28000 miles I put 12 gallons of gas in the car, and had 0 maintenance visits (did not even rotate tires). It might have been the most solid car I have ever owned, but I was using it as a 3rd vehicle, only for electric only trips.
     
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