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Discussion in 'Clarity' started by ukemike, Oct 1, 2019.
Refer to the Important Safety Reminders on P. 418.
LKAS does actually provide tactile and visual alerts to the driver.
Ukemike’s description of using LKAS indicated that he may have allowed the system to attempt to keep the vehicle in a lane. He seemed disappointed in how it performed this task. You agreed with his opinion on LKAS.
I simply provided some basic information about LKAS, as some members appear to be unfamiliar with its features and capabilities.
Fwiw I love LKAS and think it works outstanding. Reduces fatigue on some of my 750 mile days. Basically eliminates the little mini steering wheel corrections every other car needs. With LKAS activated I just leave a hand resting on the steering wheel and those little corrections are unnecessary. Obviously if there is a curve you still need to turn the wheel. If you don’t the car will sort of follow the lane, but will also also assume the driver has fallen asleep and will wiggle around to wake the driver up and flash warnings on the dash. LKAS still needs driver input, just less of it, to keep you centered. This is a completely different from the Road Departure Mitigation system, and I think many don’t understand or realize the nuances between these two things, which are quite different from each other. RDM without LKAS activated (default of the car) indeed will bounce you all over between end on top of both lane lines like a drunken moron if you try to go hands free for a short while. It is doing this somewhat by design to help wake a sleeping driver up! But it will keep you from careening off the road. But LKAS actually smooths everything out if you keep a hand on the wheel and keeps you perfectly centered. And all systems require hands on wheel anyway. I can tell from descriptions here that some are misunderstanding the systems purposes, and/or likely using them wrong. Default for LKAS is always OFF, with light colored lines on the dash. It must be manually turned on to make the lines solid, which only stay solid if it sees clear painted lines. On the other hand default for RDM is always on, and must be manually turned off if you don’t want it.
Other ways to describe it are here:
FWIW this is not a Clarity thing. It’s Honda. Just google search “RDM vs LKAS” and look at all the discussion/complements/complaints/confusion/questions about these systems in every Odyssey/Accord/Civic/CRV/Ridgeline etc forum. TONS of people driving these cars do not know how these two similar but VERY different systems are supposed to work, and are using them wrong. And many have similar complaints to what we are reading here.
Another little anecdote: When I was claim adjusting I handled a claim for a lady with a Subaru Legacy with Eyesight, which is their system. The car accelerated in snow unexpectedly up her long winding driveway and smashed into a tree/house. She blamed the car and wanted the insurance company to investigate for flaws and sue Subaru. She said she drove with the system on all the time, dealer rep told her to, and that’s why she bought the car because it was so safe and that system would prevent accidents. After I researched found dozens of BOLD WARNING pages in the Subaru owners manual advising the system should never be activated on anything but interstates and highways on dry roads in light traffic, etc I had to politely inform her she didn’t have a prayer of blaming Subaru for her failure to deactivate the system before pulling into her snowy curvy driveway, and that her dealer rep had given her very poor advice, or she misunderstood it. Accident covered but not blamed on Subaru, and the insurance company made no investment in looking for a flaw in the car. They just totaled it and moved on.
Some relearning is likely necessary for many. Just because you think you understand the system, be open minded enough to accept that you MIGHT not, and research and read about it again. I count myself in this circle. Extra research and reading might help. Might not. Cars might be flawed I freely admit, but I strongly suspect it is far more likely that human errors occur than engineering flaws are exposed. These systems are new to EVERYONE whether you have 2 years of driving experience or 52 years, suddenly most all are on equal ground when today’s new driving nannies start contributing to what the car is doing. I just urge all to accept and Respect that possibility. Despite all this new safety stuff traffic deaths are rising. Maybe this is part of the reason why. I’m not sure.
I know all about LKAS, I've read the manual, I've watched the Honda videos, I've used it on trips totaling more than 1000 miles. It adds nothing to my driving experience so I choose not to use it. That does not mean I don't understand it, that does not mean you need to explain it to me, it only means that I choose not to use it, why is that so hard to accept? Why does my informed preference require you to jump in with tedious lectures?
And of course it also does not mean that you won't find it to be outstandingly useful. If you do then more power to you, I assure you that I won't follow your example and try and convince you that you're wrong.
@KClark, assuming your comment is in reference to my last couple posts...I wasn’t talking to you....
I honestly was talking to nobody in particular and had no intention to lecture. Just expressing my opinions, observations and experience on the subject for anyone interested.
Nothing more. I do respect all the differences in opinions and experience level, I don’t know anyone here personally, and I have no delusions that anything I write would change anyone else’s mind...
Just passin some spare time on the ol interweb.
My apologies to you and anyone who I may have inadvertently offended. No harm intended.
Had this happen to me once also, car in front of me I believe was U-turning (thx California), and my clarity more or less slammed on the brakes, wasn't happy about it, but hasn't happen since, my only worry is that I can see it being very problematic if it happened on the highway (of course no one would be U - turning that I would be turning in the same direction as on a highway)
No apology necessary. I didn’t quote anyone in my reply because I wasn’t talking to just one person. This forum has some great participants and I’ve learned a lot about my Clarity here. But my one complaint about this place is a tendency to assume and then correct other people’s comments based on limited knowledge or unwarranted extrapolations from what they actually said.
I’ve found the simplest method to eliminate having to read unhinged responses and personal attacks is to utilize the “Ignore” feature on this site.
A little off-topic, but I have found the people on this forum to be especially courteous and helpful.
"Unhinged responses and personal attacks" seem very rare, and are most likely unintended.
Certainly much better than your average random forum on the Internet !
I agree. However, negative comments do surface from time to time. When a pattern develops I’m more than willing to accept the risk of missing out on some valuable information from certain individuals by placing them on the ignore list.
Our Clarity is the first car I have had with advanced safety systems. The difficult thing is, I don't have other cars to compare them to. No system can be perfect. The best system will have very few false warnings and very few instances of missing something it should have seen. Even 10 years from now, the best system will have instances where it "allows" a crash. It will also have instances with false warnings. Right now, it seems that Honda's system is not very evolved. The bottom line for me is that I think it is much more likely to prevent or lessen the severity of a crash than it is to cause a crash. That's why I leave it on.
I have never had the car brake for me. I have probably had 50 instances of false "BRAKE" warnings, and if I remember correctly, two instances where the warning was valid. To me, it's a warning to get my attention. It's worth all of the false warnings to me.
It seems to me that there should be a way to shut it off that does not require pressing a button every time you start your car. For those of us that leave it on, we do have to understand how it works, and also understand that we need to be ready to override it if it makes a bad decision. That's definitely a mind shift.
I imagine most owners here are aware of all the in and outs of the Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS), but just in case (and for browsers who may be curious), here is a video from Honda explaining how the system works and how to set it up for your preferences.
I turned off the lka, it doesn't serve me a purpose or help. I'm not sure how it could help. I drive almost 35k/yr.
Realize that LKAS is off by default...even if you turn it on, it is shut off again every time you re-start the car. It's a feature that must be turned on with every individual drive if and when you choose to use it.
Just one comment for the OP and maybe this is obvious: There is a direct trade-off when selecting "Long" for CMBS. If you want the system to be less sensitive, use the default "Normal" or perhaps select "Short."
Anyway, I can imagine that the long setting is more sensitive and steps up both the warning and the 'action' intervals.
BTW- my car either isn't sensitive, or it's how I drive but I almost never see the warning. It may of come on no more than a handful of times total in the span of a year of daily commuting. I have seen the false alarm warning when on a windy road with oncoming traffic but that's never resulted in braking (and I can see how the car is confused by this situation). Maybe there is something to folks saying the radar needs tuning. I don't know. Mine has been unobtrusive, which is fine with me.
Our 2015 OutBack with EyeSight does the same thing.
Workaround #1: Leave more room between vehicles.
Workaround #2: Push the accelerator some and braking stops.
Most of these new safety systems are designed with "proper, safe" driving techniques programmed. Driving too close, too fast, overly quick maneuvers, etc. violates their protocols. Example: common complaint across forums is ACC leaves too much room between vehicles.
This is just buggy. No question about it. I had it do this to me twice in the exact same spot with no other cars on the road. On my commute home from work on a 35mph road where the pavement is very uneven, like a temporary extra layer. I'd driven over this same spot in my Prius Prime for over a year. I have all this turned off now. It's all too sensitive.
I think these kinda of system works great on freeway. But on local street, there are just too many variables that can cause false alarm.
So this post may go slightly down the slamming road, but no harm intended. My driving style has never been aggressive, and I leave room between vehicles all the time. Anyway, let's just say passengers in my car never get nervous. Anyway, my wife from an early age learned to drive very aggressively. She manages it in the sense that she does not get into accidents, but let's just say I used to get into trouble for asking her to give a little room (because she made me nervous if I was a passenger).
So we bought the Clarity with these warnings. For the like first couple few weeks the car was constantly flashing warnings. I got a kick out of it, because she cannot "bark" at the inanimate object that is the car. And the best part I didn't get into any trouble with her for saying stuff like "Hey, you're getting too close..."
So roll the clock forward a year of Clarity ownership. That feature literally changed the way my wife drives. She, like me, basically never sees the warning now, and does leave more room between vehicles.
So I'm guessing there's either differences in the tuning of this feature, or different driving styles involved, or a bit of both. I'd add, the Clarity is simply not a performance car. I love it, but if your instinct or need is to drive like a bat out of hell, Clarity would rank super-low on the list-- in fact it's probably the wrong car for some folks to own. i.e. doesn't even come close to a sports car, nor does it 'handle' better than a brick. I think my 1967 plymouth fury III had better handling than the Clarity. All good with me (and not the reason to own this car).