An elephant in the room

I have just started looking into EVs for perhaps my next vehicle... the technology is fantastic and improving rapidly... and was surprised and shocked to see what "fueling" costs are at commercial fast charge stations, like Electrify America. Doing a direct comparison of a 1000 mile trip in a Mustang Mach E vs. an equivalent ICE compact SUV like a Honda CRV, the Honda fuel cost 40% less. Why you ask? Because of the absurd high cost of these commercial chargers, that is ~4x what one would pay to charge up at home. So, while I'd love to have an EV and would save $ for my local driving, road trips will be absurdly expensive. I did the math for my test case and that EA fast charge price is the equivalent of $5.60/gallon gasoline. Not sure what the solution might be but for me, for now, getting an EV makes zero financial sense, especially considering the relatively high initial EV purchase prices.

Does anyone here have a sense where this is going and if and how building out the charging infrastructure might bring these costs down? Or is going to be like our situation for broadband services where we just let a few companies essentially have a monopoly and soak us for every penny?

 

I'm not so sure about competition helping. There are plenty of examples where we allow what amounts to monopolies... or whatever the word is for de facto monopolies... such as for broadband service. Then we allow these companies to create pricing structures and mandatory service bundles that soak customers. IOW, competition in many business segments is largely a myth. These practices... and allowing these practices... are far more detrimental than any govt tax. My analogy for these chargers is that they are essentially electricity ATM machines, with super high fees. EA for instance charges $0.43/kWh, but I suspect they get the supply from the utilities at deep discounts to rates even lower than we pay at home, maybe $0.05/kWh. That's an 800% markup. Good job if you can get it. Perhaps there are some other factors that drive their costs higher and I'd love to know what they are and try to understand it better.

Yeah, driving an EV locally and charging at home is a BIG win. But for me making the highway use so dear is a huge disincentive to get one.

 

So Tesla gives you really low rates at the superchargers along with the purchase of the car? For life? I hadn't thought about hotels that might provide free L2. That would be cool. Unless you got there and they were all taken.

I can drive my Toyota Tacoma on a road trip for the same cost per mile as a Mustang Mach E using EA fast chargers. And for 40% less in a CRV or somesuch. Sad. I have a 1000 mile road trip coming up that I can do in two 5 minute gas stops in the Tacoma whereas in the Mach E it'd probably take 7 or more, each about 45 minutes. It might start to make sense if there was $ to be saved but your calcs show the same as mine. The commercial DC fast charging is literally highway robbery.

 

No offense but you guys must misunderstand. I want an EV. And no one ever said they didn't make great sense as a daily driver. But if any journey outside the range of one's home L2 wall plug is priced like Disneyland EVs are never gonna be willingly accepted.

 

I am retired so don't have a daily commute and I probably head out to "Disneyland" more than most... and I have a major problem with having to pay 4x for fuel when I am on the road as opposed to home... because, why? It makes no sense. If gasoline was like that there would be a holy war. Sure the providers have some expense for the equipment but not enough to justify the extreme markup from what they pay... a markup I estimate to be ~ 800%. Once the machines are in place they mostly just print $ for the owners. If and when this is somehow managed and regulated to have charging provided at a somewhat equitable rate, like Tesla does, maybe it would make sense. Otherwise, not. I'd get a Tesla except those don't appeal to me. But that's a whole other discussion.

 

EVSE units for home charging are cheaper here, at least in USD$. Maybe $500 to $600. And I can do the electrical installation myself so that is free except for the romex cable and receptacle. The cost of those commercial fast chargers is a piece of the puzzle I don't have but hard to believe that each one costs $150,000. If so that would explain a lot, especially if they need frequent repair or have short life cycles. That would need to change... and maybe it will as demand increases and more such devices are produced.

The other thing that I see as a problem here is that every provider has his own "network". IMO, this sort of infrastructure should be universal, transparent, and as inexpensive as possible. That is if we really want to leverage the true potential of EVs. And hopefully we will at least eventually have a universal plug and charge protocol that works seamlessly across these various networks to make it more convenient.

I don't know how your $0.50/kWh rate at commercial charging compares to your gasoline prices. Here in the US gasoline is relatively cheap so the math becomes more difficult. When you can drive a petrol Honda CRV or Mazda MX-5 for 40% less per mile than an equivalent EV like a Mustang Mach E (on the road at commercial chargers) there is little incentive to go EV... for that use case anyway. And the difference in the city isn't all that great, either. The petrol cars will cost more to operate but not drastically so. And their cheaper initial price easily offsets any extra fuel costs. Of course the net bottom line depends on how many miles and the mix between city and "disneyland".

In many ways you early adopters have it pretty good, especially for daily local driving. I am on a UK forum where they have far more EV penetration than we do here and there are many threads about crowded public charging points, drivers unplugging another car whilst the owner is in the coffee shop, men intimidating women to unplug and move on so they can charge, other charge point crime and "charge rage". A whole new set of issues. Hopefully we can avoid most of that.

 

Yeah, that's ~the same math I used and with your mix you come out ahead. With my mix it is closer to break even... or it would be if I had a CRV which I don't. My Tacoma uses quite a bit more. But even if you do save $ with your mix or break even with my mix the other question becomes: is the charging hassle and extra stop time on road trips worth it? I watched a youtube video of a 1000 mile road trip by an EV enthusiast in a Mach E and even editing out much of the actual wait time it looked painful.... cold weather, hanging out for hours (cumulatively) in WalMart parking lots and some other sketchy locations to get EA charges, etc. Part of the problem is that you can only really charge to 80% and even then depending on the next charging stop location you might not even be able to fully utilize that. Hence more stops. I like the idea an earlier poster mentioned about getting L2 while stopped at a hotel. That would help somewhat and save the wait time for those stops at least.

So I am on the fence for now since I don't need a vehicle and mine has been paid off for 11 years and it's a Toyota so the only operating costs are gas and oil changes. Kind of digging the Cadillac Lyriq but that will be another couple of years to get an AWD version. I am going to keep up with everything and sooner or later will take the plunge, if only for DD/local transport. I wish those solid state batteries would be ready sooner. That might be a game changer... if the infrastructure piece gets better.

 

I agree... for most people... simply because they will neither do nor understand these calculations. And it seems that even many who do understand come around to being OK with getting soaked at the commercial chargers as long as they come out ahead overall. As PT Barnum said... there's a sucker born every minute.