AAA conflict of interest on "EV Cold Weather study"- study not credible

Discussion in 'General' started by 101101, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    Say thank you to Tesla's generous and illegal referral credits to customers for making a sale! These guys will sell you 10 lemons happily for a buck.
    There was a reason bird dogging is illegal in many states. Tesla referral scheme helped them keep a lid on their QA issues and got them them high consumer ratings till now. Now that the referral credit is gone, wait for a collapse in all those metrics.

    And more importantly, Tesla forgot to account for the expensive referral awards ! :( Now customers (aka sales people) are stuck; can't get anything they were promised. What a scam (another one). IEV story coming soon. Elon will hand deliver the promised power walls.

    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-referral-program.64363/page-410#post-3405179
    "Tesla owes me 3 powerwalls. It's been 2+ years, and they have been giving me the runaround. I don't think they have any intention of fulfilling the reward."

    Elon thinking, flying in his expensive private plane : "Good luck suckers! Getting them powerwalls in this life! I'm off to Mars before you get your powerwalls."
     
  2. Shorting has a long and storied in the financial industry. It prevents untoward optimism by a bias towards buyers which is always existant. The market is after all about buying stock. The behavior of Dick Bove(the premier banking analyst back in 08) calling buys on banks a week before they all went bankrupt, speaks to the problem when buyers get to biased in things, people get hurt. Shorts temper that and all in the industry know of this function they serve. To often people confused practices such as naked shorting with shorting itself, not understanding the concepts.
    You seem a rational person who is well thought. On the other side this appears not so. I never invested in Tesla and now seeing this varying behavior mentioned, I think I will stay firmly away.
    When peoples get overly exuberant on a thing it shows to me always there is a problem ahead. Such is always present in the market before all of our big crashes.
    I am fervently in favor or EV and fighting climate change, and do what I can. But Tesla no I will stay away. I fear if they do fail, which it appears they may, it may have untoward negative results for the rest of the industry. Hopefully we are already so far along this does not happen. But I now have real fears for tesla when once I did not.
    Elon struck me as strange on the Joe Rogan interview I have seen. Prior he always seemed well grounded. Seemed changed. Is he having personal problems, on medications perhaps(so many are these days) I can only venture. But he is so much a part of Tesla if he is a kilter, it seems a rocky road is ahead. Peoples thought apple was a straight buy as well, not that long ago. Clearly they are not and have some problems the stock losses speak to. So a past tesla may not as well be a present tesla.
    Seems real solid but often what seems so is not. Enron two years prior to their crash it was all a go go go. But their crash was evident to those who studied them, in things such as overt manipulation of the California power market, to generate profit. They essentially created power black outs to reap benefits in the short term buying/selling market. People some died as result, car crashes at lights that did not work, stuck in elevators stressed, things like that. They did not care, the company was a kilter. The traders they recorded them actually laughing at the problems created. They were as well a buy buy buy, until a short time before their demise. Only one analyst called the short, all the rest went along for the ride. Environmentalists and environmental law were blamed instead for the blackouts.

    So I now have doubts about tesla, over rational exuberance is present, those on the buy side seem faulted(in 07 all the buy people the vast majority were as well and really had no place in the market), and the CEO, well he seems to have issues.
    On a side note this place seems not only with personal attack but xenophobia. I don't know if I can tolerate such a environment. Personal attacks I can weather, Xenophobia, not so much, I have Asian in my immediate family as well as native american. Often the target of such attacks. I myself are trained in Kagyu buddhism, am formally a member by ceremony, which is one form of Tibetan Buddhism and hence Chinese, or at least so about 70 years now. My teacher is now back in Tibet. And in his role as spiritual leader he certainly serves as a minor functionary. I am disinclined to places that demonize china and Chinese.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  3. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I don't think I should have to do your homework, but here is one account which I immediately found by Googling:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=L...e petty officials expect to be bribed&f=false

    However, checking out a description of the book, I see the author "suggests that recent corruption is largely a byproduct of post-Mao reforms..." rather than being mainly a holdover from the corruption of the bureaucracy in Imperial China, as indicated by what I've read elsewhere. I can't say I'm convinced by one author's viewpoint, but it's an interesting perspective (or possibly revisionist interpretation) on Chinese culture.

     
  4. Stating people are holding positions that are not logically sustainable and that people are making straw man arguments, are not personal attacks. People stating other have deficiency in cognition or the ability to determine reality from fiction certainly are.
    That you cannot see that says a boat load. One is discussing the valid basis for argument and the other is discussing personal qualifications or lack of.
    Your content reference is from one single author and is inclusive of personal antidotal information as partial substance. This is a book that was published in 2004 and we can reasonably assume any statistical data or antidotal information is at this point a good close to 20 years old. And that one book is not considered authority on Chinese culture.
    It's author is based not in China nor is that a Chinese publication, but he is based in NYC.
    What bothers me is not that you are like that,(many are) but others here seem to support your way of doing things and then this may assume your xenophobic comments as well.
    I find your comments on Chinese officials not sustained and in fact quite arbitrary.
    And you are finding it impossible to differentiate attack on discussion from personal attack.

    As a aside to that, transparency international ranks china in the middle, slightly leaning better than most, on corruptive practices on a global scale considered, wiki..."Transparency International's 2017 Corruption Perception Index ranks the country 77th place out of 180 countries.[4] Means of corruption include graft, bribery, embezzlement, backdoor deals, nepotism, patronage, and statistical falsification."[5]


    You will probably take that as a personal attack. It is simply another statement of fact, from a legitimate source referenced. They are simply, despite warts and blemishes, the only one really tracking this thing globally.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  5. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Agreed; the action of shorting is a legitimate part of stock trading. At least theoretically, it puts a brake on stock bubbles. And in fact, I have -- once or twice -- seen quite calm, reasonable and rational discussion about investing in a particular stock (not Tesla's) between those shorting the stock and those buying the stock.

    I don't know what it is about shorting Tesla that seems to seduce people to the Dark Side of the Force... to engage in serial Tesla bashing and outright FUD on social media. But unfortunately there is a lot of that!

    Perhaps there is some place where Tesla shorters engage in reasonable discussion, avoiding Big Lies, half-truths, cherry-picking of outlier facts and figures, and in general, avoiding FUD. But sadly, I have never seen it.

     
  6. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I've edited and deleted a number of posts in this thread. Some of those deleted were fine, but quoted deleted posts.

    If you feel a post has objectionable content, please report it rather than respond directly. We would like this to be a place where people can have good discussions -- even with disagreements. Thanks for your cooperation and patience.
     
    Richard_arch74 and bwilson4web like this.
  7. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Active Member

    @Domenick Thanks, this thread was rapidly going off track instead of talking of the merits or demerits of the AAA study. There is another very similar track, it is possible to merge them in case there is interest in further discussion. But a lot has been said already.
     
  8. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Thank you.

    Yes, I was one of the offenders here, but that doesn't mean I enjoyed it, and I'm glad to see the pejoratives have been deleted.

     

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