Regenerative braking best practices

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by bsommerhalder, Mar 27, 2021.

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How do you usually use regenerative braking?

  1. I leave it at level 0 all the time

    7 vote(s)
    9.5%
  2. I leave it at level 1 all the time

    4 vote(s)
    5.4%
  3. I leave it at level 2 all the time

    12 vote(s)
    16.2%
  4. I leave it at level 3 all the time

    35 vote(s)
    47.3%
  5. I adjust it once before each trip

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  6. I adjust it a couple of times each trip

    7 vote(s)
    9.5%
  7. I am constantly adjusting it during a trip

    7 vote(s)
    9.5%
  8. I didn't know I could change it / didn't know about the paddles

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  1. autopro20

    autopro20 New Member

    We are living in a time where, what we have been doing for the last 100 years or so is really catching up with us. We think that this virus, or any of the other lower respiratory viruses, diseases, illnesses, etc., of the last many years are problems. I would like to suggest, to you, that these are not the problems at all, but symptoms of a much bigger problem.


    The real problem is transportation exhaust emissions, with a major portion of those emissions coming from PEM mobiles. PEM is my acronym for Poison Emitting Machines, which are any machines/engines powered by anything related to oil, i.e. gasoline, diesel fuel, etc. Absolute poison. (Research PM 2.5 airborne pollutants) If you question what I am stating, start your PEM mobile up in your garage with all of your doors and windows closed, and see how long you last.


    The fact that this virus, or any of the other lower respiratory viruses, diseases, and illnesses seem to affect older people, is simply because they have been breathing these toxins, and poisons that much longer than younger people, thereby compromising their lung effectiveness even more.


    Please notice the aerial views that have been shown on some of the news stations, of several areas around the world, where just a few months before this latest virus/pandemic, the air around there was all hazy, and full of toxins, and other pollutants. Then those same aerial views, during the height of this pandemic, were showing perfectly clear air. Ozone alerts that happen in the warmer weather are simply the result of transportation exhaust emissions.


    Big pharma doesn’t want to see big oil go away, because they profit so much from lower respiratory issues. We, the USA, have taken the biggest hit with regard to this covid bull crap, and our country is the largest consumer of oil, almost twice that of China. Imagine that! The evidence is empirical. We need to halt the production of PEM mobiles, convert to fully electric only vehicles, and take the lead on cleaning the air that we all breathe every day. We have to stop making excuses, and just do it.


    Many claim that it is an inconvenience to own an electric car, because It takes longer to charge, etc. than to fill up at the nearest gas/poison station. Tell me, do you feel inconvenienced now? Just a thought.


    Manny

    Former Member of the Society of Automotive Engineers
     
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  3. navguy12

    navguy12 Well-Known Member

    As part of the protocol to "set the car up like a (car I'm used to)" for my wife, I set the auto regen to level 3 and the instrumentation to the normal one (not eco or sport).

    She's been happy as a clam since last August with it...
     
  4. JohnDD

    JohnDD New Member

    I think you've hit the nail on the head. When you brake, the display shows that you're getting regeneration. Just like if you use the paddles. I will use regen =0 and brakes and see how that goes.
     
  5. JohnDD

    JohnDD New Member

    • few seconds, enough time to slow down a bit to correct my speed, then I right-paddle to bring back to regen 0 and simply accelerate / coast again.) If I need to slow down a little quicker, I'll paddle to regen 2 or 3 as needed.
    • If I can see I am actually needing to come to an upcoming stop, I will paddle my regen up as I approach my stop, slowing down more and more as I approach the stop, ending at regen 3 and then holding the left-hand paddle down to use regen to come to a complete stop. Then, when stopped, I paddle back down to regen 0, ready to accelerate again.
    • Most trips, I do not use the actual brake pedal *at all* -- or if I do it is to react to something that necessitates an immediate stop. (I often consider it a bit of a 'fail' if I have to use the brake pedal! --- I bet my brake pads will last the life of my car)
    This technique has been the most energy efficient I have found, because 'coasting' is always going to be your most efficient mode of movement. Anything we do to get in the way of the car coasting is reducing its efficiency.

    Let's say you are going down a steep hill. If the speed limit was not a concern and no one was in front of you, the most efficient thing you could do would be to turn off cruise control, set regen to 0, and let the car fall down the hill and pick up momentum, and then just let that momentum take you as far as it can go without having to apply more juice.

    But of course, speed limits do matter and we can't just ram the backs of the cars in front of us, so WE get to use regen braking to reduce our speed -- when we need to -- rather than stinky ICE brakes. This same principle applies on a flat road too; no reason to "brake" more than you need to (even if it isn't hurting our brake pads).
    Click to expand...
    The brake pads may last the life of the car but not the rotors.
    I had to change the rotors on my 2016 Kia Soul EV to pass safety check at about 60,000 Km. The pads were hardly worn. I was always using "B", which is the term they use for regeneration. Seems that I never used the brakes enough to keep the rotors smooth.
     
  6. How is this relevant to regenerative braking?
     
    navguy12 and KiwiME like this.
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  8. " Big pharma doesn’t want to see big oil go away, because they profit so much from lower respiratory issues." Wow that is some conspiracy theory. Is there any evidence to support it?

     
  9. PM him if you want a response to that, it's not relevant to this thread.
    The car will tell you if the battery has no more capacity to accept energy, no speculation required.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  10. SFC

    SFC New Member

    One thing I've been curious about - which, I admit, may be only tangentially related to this thread: when I use the paddles instead of the brake pedal, do the brake lights go on? If not, should I be concerned that the possibly inattentive driver behind me won't notice that I'm slowing down? I'm all for maximizing regen, but I'm wondering if I'm sacrificing safety.
    [=sfc=]
     
    electriceddy likes this.
  11. Yes they do:
    https://insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/modifications-and-tweaks.5009/page-8#post-104201
    Keep in mind that the brake lights will now stay on when fully stopped as well after the 00D005 update to the 4 modules (BMS,MCU,VCULDC an IGPM around July 2020)

    Thanks to Esprit1st
     
    mho likes this.
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  13. Soona

    Soona Member

    I've been confused about two things:

    1. Doesn't the brake pedal also regenerate just like the paddles? I used to use the paddles more but it seems that using the brakes also shows charge being added to the battery, so is there difference?

    2. To those using 3 all the time: doesn't it seem like you need more accelerator pedal power to overcome the resistance of the level 3 regen? In which case it's better to reduce the friction (paddles) unless going downhill enough to coast and charge. I descend a certain long downhill regularly and I try to see how much I can add to the charge. So I start with paddles at 0 to pick up some speed, then go to 1, then 2, maybe 3 but back down to 2. If I just had it on 3 the whole time I feel like I am using the accelerator to overcome that resistance.

    I often drive 60 miles on a relatively flat highly with little traffic. I might be wrong but I put the paddles at zero to put the least resistance against the acceleration. When the highway does descend a bit, if I put on the paddle regen, I still feel I can't let it coast/charge and still maintain 70 mph, and if I use the accelerator I need to use more to overcome resistance.

    Maybe I have this all wrong. Happy to hear comments
     
  14. I think you are overthinking it...:) I just leave my car in ECO mode at level3, and let the car do all the thinking, and never use the paddles. Works perfectly, just does everything like I want and would expect.
     
    navguy12 likes this.
  15. Yes, you're somewhat over-thinking the way all this works.

    Assuming you're interested in the best economy, picture this: Think of regen levels 1-3 as being similar to an ICE car automatically applying the brakes whenever you released the gas pedal. You would know instinctively that it wastes gasoline, so you would be careful about how often you let that happen.

    The only difference with an EV is that instead of wasting 100% of the reduction in kinetic energy while the brakes are applied, you only lose about 20%.

    So, the "rubber band" effect in Level 3 can be misleading as it feels like you're feeding energy to and from the battery in equal amounts. If you're in the habit of lifting your foot off the gas pedal every few seconds or have difficulty keeping steady pressure on it, Level 3 regen could, in-theory, lead to a higher energy consumption. Level 3 certainly makes driving more convenient and would not incur a loss in economy for drivers with a steady right foot.

    Using Level 0 means every application of regen requires at least a semi-conscious effort to use the brake pedal (or left paddle) and so as a result you might be more inclined to coast up to the next red traffic light, etc, rather approach at-speed and apply a higher rate of regen to slow down.
     
    ettal, navguy12 and FlexTail like this.
  16. SFC

    SFC New Member

  17. Jimct

    Jimct Active Member

    Ever since I had the recalls done a coupe days ago my regen level is defaulting to 1 when I start the car. I can paddle back to 3, but the next off/on cycle returns it to 1. Did this happen to anyone else, and is there a setting adjustment I'm not aware of?
     
    electriceddy likes this.
  18. It is possible one of the recalls has reset the coastal energy regeneration levels. I would check those settings in the center screen on all three drive modes and you should be fine:
    [​IMG]

    Also detailed @ 1:25 of this video:

     
    mho and navguy12 like this.
  19. Jimct

    Jimct Active Member

    That was it exactly. Problem solved, thanks so much!
     
    navguy12 and electriceddy like this.
  20. Soona

    Soona Member

    Thanks for this perspective. Are you saying that when you depress the accelerator pedal, it "turns off" the paddle resistance until you release the accelerator again? I assumed that the accelerator is always trying to overcome the paddle resistance, which seemed like a net inefficiency, which is why I don't keep it on paddle 3. It certainly feels to me like the accelerator is fighting against the paddle resistance.
     
  21. The regen is simply the reverse of applying power, energy goes back to the battery instead of being drawn from it. It isn't even possible for both to be happening at the same time.
     
  22. Maybe actually seeing what's happening during acceleration and regen would be helpful. You can click the button that shows trip info and accumulated info several more times to get the small action graphic showing power flow to/from the battery. Play with accelerating and decelerating, and with the four regen options, to see what KiwiME described.
     
  23. hobbit

    hobbit Well-Known Member

    Soona asked ... "Doesn't the brake pedal also regenerate just like the paddles?"

    Yes, using the normal brake pedal goes to regeneration first and doesn't hit the hydraulics at
    all, until down to very low speeds or if the car senses that you're in a panic or aggressive stop.
    This and the testing proof is detailed here.

    So there's no harm or loss in staying in regen 0, enjoying the glide, and using the pedal normally.

    _H*
     

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