Level 2 charging question.

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by M. Shah, Aug 23, 2019.

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  1. M. Shah

    M. Shah Member

    I have 2 220 volt outlets in my garage and have 2 EVs (2018 Clarity Plug in and 2012 Leaf). When I got my garage wired I asked the electrician to run 2 separate 50 amp lines to future proof for 2 EVs. I currently use a GE wattstation for the Honda and charge the leaf on the 120 Volt. I just got a really good deal on a Chargepoint home hard wire which I bought.

    I have 2 options, 1 is to hardwire the EVSE. For that I will have to unplug the receptacle and connect some kind of a whip conduit to the evse: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-3 ... 373118-_-N

    Second option is to get a 50 amp plug with 6 or 8 gauge cable and connect it to the ChargePoint: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-50-Am ... /206405351

    Issue with option 2 is it covers the only 110 volt outlet in the garage due to the cable. Picture here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/toKbwdaR6JMXeKxr8

    How hard will it be for me to open the box, cut the cables and then connect the whip conduit to the EVSE. That seems to be the best option. Electricians want $200 t move the receptacle 2 feet!
     

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  3. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    You don't need the “whip cable”. ChargePoint makes a plug with short cable just for the ChargePoint. It installs in the spring lock terminals just like a hard wired install would. This is much preferred over adding extra length by splicing in with wire nuts.

    Since the ChargePoint does not require a neutral, it uses a NEMA 6-50 receptacle. If your outlet is not a 6-50, it can easily be converted and the neutral wire safely capped with a wire nut.
    I am not a licensed electrician, but I strongly recommend you go this route.

    If you are a mechanically inclined DIYer like me, you can install it your self. If your receptacle is already a 6-50, all you do is open the ChargePoint, insert the prestripped wire ends into the spring lock terminals and push the locking tabs closed. Then you just plug into the receptacle. Changing out the receptacle to a 6-50 is easy too, but if you’ve never done wiring before you might be better off calling for an electrician. Just pay him or her their 1 hour service call. For me in KY, that was only $70. The NEMA 6-50 receptacle is around $13 on Amazon if you need it.

    Here is a picture of the NEMA 6-50 receptacle that matches the ChargePoint plug. It’s basically the two hot legs and the ground and is rated to 50 Amps.
    F88CFED1-6917-4C48-AA76-968236F4779C.png
     
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  4. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    I concur with the plug / receptacle recommendation. I like my chargepoint 32A charge cord a lot (including the wifi reporting to the chargepoint app and web page), but it failed twice already under warranty. I am now on my third brand new unit.

    It was hardwired, and the last time, I told them, I am so grateful for the fast replacements under warranty, but if this is an every 6 month thing, how about changing me over to a plug unit on the next replacement, and they did.

    Fortunately I'm an EE with some electrical experience, so I installed the socket Ken shows above, and now if it fails again (here's hoping not), I can just unplug it. Also, if you ever need to do a power reset, it is a lot easier to just unplug it, then to go to the electrical box to turn off the breaker (unless the panel is in the garage, my sub panel for the dryer and EV charge cord, is in the basement).

    Post note - yes, almost as easy to hardwire as to add a socket. But, you may be grateful to have the socket later for the reasons above.

    That said, my Clipper Creek LCS-20 (16A) too was hardwired through two Volts. Now it's hardwired in the front of the house near the garage as a backup, and for use when the car is in the driveway. The Clipper Creek is built like a tank, no fancy wifi, but I never had a single glitch with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  5. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    I really can't tell from the pic but it looks like the black box is sealed with a cover plate. The wires inside (hot or not) should be capped. One simply has to remove the cover and caps and properly connect the wire leads from the EVSE to it (if provided or buy your own wiring). My hardwire ClipperCreek unit came with both the wiring lead and wiring instructions.
     
  6. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    Here's one possibility to retain the 120V outlet access and hardwire the Chargepoint. I assume the 240V outlet is the one with the conduit running up the wall to the single receptacle. The conduit is likely 3/4 inch, which works fine for the Chargepoint. 1) Turn off the power, 2) make sure the power is off 3) remove the 240V receptacle, 4) pull the conduit off the wire and cut about a foot off the conduit 5) put the conduit back on the wire 6) install the Chargepoint on the wall and attach the conduit 7) wire the Chargepoint with the instructions in the box. 8) turn on the power. I can't see the type of receptacle you have already in the photo, but if it's 4 wires, then like @KentuckyKen noted above, don't use the neutral with the Chargepoint. If any of this is uncomfortable for you or you are not certain how to turn off the power, then the $200 for the electrician to move the outlet is the way to go! One last note: why do you charge the Leaf with 120V if you have 2 240V in your garage?
     
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  8. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    I just called ChargePoint and they do not sell the short cable with 6-50 plug separately. So you’ll have to get this from the big box orange or blue stores or perhaps an RV store or that good old stand by Amazon.
    As our more knowledgeable members said above it’s definitely better to use a plug than to wire in a short extension. If the run is short to the breaker box, it might be just as cheap to run a little longer wire and hard wire it to the CP.

    Also searched for a 6-50 plug with pigtail and couldn’t find one. Just found 6-50 short extension cords/adapters that you could cut one end off. They are a little pricey at over $50 though.
    You can get the 4 plug 59 Amp pigtails for $22. Is it electrically acceptable and code compliant to not wire up the neural on a dryer type receptacle and wire nut the end of the neutral inside the ChargePoint using this? (Probably not and in that case you need the 6-50) That would get it done for $22 plus Cost of the receptacle and cover plate.
    F713427F-4D5D-46F6-91F1-4C9946D52A4F.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  9. M. Shah

    M. Shah Member

    One option I have is to open the square box at the bottom and run the whip conduit to the chargepoint. All I will have to do is cut the wires that go to the receptacle and then use connectors to connect to the new conduit.

    Ken: I already called chargepoint and they do not provide the cable separately even though the cable interchangeable. So I bought a 6-50 plug and some 6/3 cable and plugged the chargepoint in. That works, however it covers my only 110 volt so I need to improvise.

    Fotomoto: The black box you see is a 6-50 receptacle.

    Sandroad: I thought about what you said but that wouldnt work because the height of the chargepoint would be too low. I only had 1 level 2 charger and the leaf gets driven only 15 miles a day so L1 to 80% takes 4 hours.
     
  10. Rangavasu

    Rangavasu Member

    Did you think about moving 110 volt outlet couple of feet up or side? This may be little easier by using old work single gang box and cover it with wall plate.
     
  11. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    I wonder if there is enough slack in the box to just rotate the 6-50 receptacle 180 degrees in the same box? (breaker OFF, use care not to damage insulation, or push insulation into a sharp edge, if unsure, do not try this yourself.) Also, If you do this, double check all the connections are still tight on the outlet after rotating it.

    Otherwise, it should be relatively easy job for an electrician to shorten or lengthen the horizontal conduit, so the box riser is either left or right of the 120V outlet. They might need to go enough left or right to hit a stud. Does that allow enough room for where you can mount the chargepoint? Some of the bolts for the chargepoint, either for a plywood backer or the unit itself should go into a stud too.

    Maybe what makes the most sense is get an electrician in to both move the receptacle and to mount the chargepoint EVSE for you. Hardwiring is not horrible, and not that difficult, and looks fine. It is just a bit more of a pain if you need to change out the unit later.

    Oh, I see you mentioned the $200, but maybe in the long run, just do it and get it done. You are going to spend $50+ no matter what, so more like $150. That's a good chunk of change for me too, but sometimes it just makes more sense to get a pro to do it for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
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  13. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    I'm thinking of the different options in terms of building code and permits. Not making any judgement as it's up to the individual to decide based on all of the factors, but I'm just curious thinking how the options compare from that viewpoint.

    - modifying an outlet yourself would I assume be a code issue just about anywhere to do it without a permit, and likely the permit will not allow DIY.

    - modifying a hardwired device to use a plug however seems like it might be different. I would think it's possible that you would not be violating any type of city code, no more than plugging in three space heaters into a single circuit violates city code, regardless of whether it's a good idea or not. Insurance might be different story but I am only referring to city ordinance.

    - hardwiring an EVSE yourself by extending or rerouting an existing outlet wire, I would assume that gets back to being a city code issue, because it is now an installation not just a modification to an appliance that you are plugging into an existing outlet.

    I was thinking the same thing, depending on which ways the wires are going it seems like either the 120 or the 240 could possibly be moved. But I think that is probably back to being a permit issue even if no wiring is changed. Then again if the work is done neatly who would ever know that the outlet was moved, but I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if you called the city and asked if you need a permit to move an outlet a few inches higher, they will probably say yes.
     
  14. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    I’d just move the entire vertical section and junction box at the floor 16” to the left. To do this you need to disassemble it all starting at the receptical working backwards, eventually you shorten that conduit at the floor about 16”, re-fish the wire thru the vertical section and reinstall 16” to the left at the next stud. You need to buy nothing to do this...just a bit of labor. You will be shortening the wires inside by about 16” too before reinstalling he receptical.

    As a handyman/electrician by trade I would charge about $100 to do this basically just a 1 hour service call with no materials. And I sure wouldn’t be messing with permits...this is a simple repair situation to an existing circuit.

    If you’re a rudimentary DIY person, you can do this. Shut power off first and get the screws on that receptical TIGHT upon reinstall. #1 rookie mistake I repair is an outlet that a homeowner installed and then it went up in a puff of smoke after plugging in a hairdryer or space heater. Then they’re suddenly scared to do their own electrical work so they call me in to fix and advise. The mistake was simply undertightened screws....EVERY time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
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  15. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    >>Just remove the existing black receptical, install a junction box with removable cover in its place, run a 16”’ish piece of horizontal conduit to the right or left to get to the next stud with appropriate sized conductors inside, and reinstall the current black receptical on the next stud over. Interference problem solved.

    That could work, but if the OP is qualified to do conduit work, why not just shorten the horizontal conduit and move it all to the left. Same for going right, but that needs a coupling and more conduit, and might need more wire.

    Actually, that is a pretty good idea, either way is about the same outcome.

    (But, some people have very little experience with electrical work, and may not even know how tight to make connections or how to properly use wire nuts, or might not catch damaged insulation, or might not get the conductors properly seated in the box (e.g. insulation pushing into a sharp metal edge). It's not a slight, we all have very different life experiences. Poorly connected EVSE connections can overheat or otherwise be problematic.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  16. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    You read faster than I typed. I deleted my first idea as I initially didn’t see the junction box at the floor when I glanced at the picture. This makes the repair REALLY easy...

    And I agree it needs to be done carefully.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
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  17. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    Moving the outlet if done neatly (i.e. repair drywall, spackle and paint) will make the move essentially invisible to "prying eyes", whereas other options might draw attention at some future date. Maybe that would be unlikely to cause an issue, depending on the locality, again I am just pointing out an additional factor to consider if things will be done without a permit.
     
  18. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Shortening the conduit at the floor results in nothing but a couple screw holes to spackle. No drywall patch necessary. It’s all surface run.
     
  19. TomL

    TomL Active Member

    As a related aside, an electrician charged me only $100 to cut and splice a 240V line in my garage (for a once used pool heater) into a new a 14-50 outlet 10 feet away, and replaced a 60 amp breaker with a 40 amp. This was a pretty easy job that took less than 30 minutes. I use a Level 2 32 Amp Morec portable EVSE that cost $268. For a total of $368 I have the ideal charging system that is working perfectly--so far.
     
  20. MrFixit

    MrFixit Well-Known Member

    I agree that moving the whole thing to the left makes a lot of sense. This does not require 'extending' wires.
    I would hesitate to attempt to 'extend' an AWG-6 wire using wire nuts. It may be possible to find wire nuts rated to accept two AWG-6 wires, but you won't find them at the local home center. I wouldn't trust a wire nut connection with a heavy load like this.
     
  21. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    Agree it sure looks that way.
     
  22. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    The wire nuts are blue, and in stock at every big box store. Such a connection follows code, is commonly done, and is safe when conductors are properly twisted.

    Nonetheless, unnecessary for this project.
     
  23. MrFixit

    MrFixit Well-Known Member

    Show me a wire connector in a box store that is rated for two AWG-6 wires !!!
    Maybe I missed it.

    OK, I see one now... Still wouldn't trust it with wire this large.
     

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