Kill-A-Watt / KillAWatt and Level 1 charger numbers

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Young J Kwak, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Young J Kwak

    Young J Kwak Member

    In an effort to more accurately checked the kWh consumption for charging the car and thus the estimated monthly cost, I connected the Level 1 charger to a Kill-A-Watt.

    Here are some numbers for the interest of those that want to know just how many amps it is pulling, etc.

    Note - the battery is at about 20% charge level.
    Note - the bungee cord in the photo is one of 2 that holds the charger up

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    GTO 409 and Viking79 like this.
  2. tim

    tim Member

    Since the Clarity doesn't show charging stats, and I didn't buy a fancier charger that shows charging stats, I thought about getting a Kill-A-Watt, but I was concerned about the robustness of the meter in a many hours per day, 7 days per week usage scenario. Should the Kill-A-Watt work in that daily usage scenario over the long term? Or are you using it just once in a while for a few minutes just to see the instantaneous power draw?
     
  3. Young J Kwak

    Young J Kwak Member

    Back when I was mining cryptos, several multi-gpu rigs were all connected to Kill-a-Watt units with No issues for over 2 years.

    They pulled a good bit of watts and amps, and not a single of the Kill-a-watts died.

    The electricity cost to run these rigs portrays just how many more watts mining rigs will consume than Level 1 charging the PHEV.

    Considering that the Level 1 charger is pulling less than 11amps, I have no concerns, and will keep this thing connected 24/7.
     
  4. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    The Kill-A-Watt should be fine, but occasionally and carefully check plug temperature when it has been pulling max current for a while. It shouldn't get very hot. Some Leaf owners melted theirs, but probably a faulty unit. The device is rated at 120 V 15 A so it should be fine with Clarity. My guess is a faulty unit with a poor connection internally could be problematic.
     
  5. Young J Kwak

    Young J Kwak Member

    Thank you for that recommendation.
    I will be mindful to see if it pulls more than 11amps and have a laser thermometer I can check it with.
    I will update this post if there are any notable concerns that arise.
     
  6. kent335

    kent335 Member

    I am very curious to see what numbers you come up with. Based on my analysis of my Pacific Gas & Electric Bill, I came up with about 80% efficiency using the Level 1 Charger, and about 92% efficiency using a Siemens 32 Amp Level 2 Charger. I do live in a hot location, and recharging has been in a garage that is around 85-90 degrees hot.
     
  7. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW Well-Known Member

  8. Hi.Ho.Silver

    Hi.Ho.Silver Active Member

    I have been using a Kill a Watt in line with my Clarity L1 charger since I got the car in February. I use it to monitor total electric consumption each month. Haven’t had any problems with it thus far.
     
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  9. Young J Kwak

    Young J Kwak Member

    Thank you HiHoSilver - i am now More confident that all will be fine : )
     
  10. Chooch

    Chooch Member

    Thanks for posting that. I have been trying to determine what the payback would be for installing a level 2 charger at home. Most of the time overnight charging on Level 1 is fine for me but the convenience of quick charging via a Level 2 at home would come in handy at times. So I've been wondering how much more efficient the Level 2 is compared to Level 1 so that I could determine how much money I'd save per full charge to see what the payback time is...Hopefully someone here can make better sense of the numbers since I am not sure of my methodology but here's my shot at using your #s (12% more efficient)...
    As I recall, from the readout on a Level 2 at work, a full charge usually takes on average, I'd say around 14.3 kWh. Does that mean that on a Level 1 it would take 12% more energy---> 1.12*14.3 =~16 kWh for a full charge? If so,I think I'd be saving an average of 16-14.3 =1.7 kWh per full charge by installing and using a Level 2 instead of my Level 1 at home. My rate is $0.16/kWh which I guess would mean that each full charge on a Level 2 would save me 1.7*0.16 = 27.5 cents as compared to using my Level 1.
    I was quoted a cost of$2K for installing a Level 2 charger, so is payback would be 2000/0.275 = 7272 full charges, and at about 1 full charge per day, am I looking at a ~20 year payback for the convenience of Level 2 charging at home??? Have I got that right? It seems crazy so I assume I must be missing something. Thanks for any input.
     
  11. kent335

    kent335 Member

    @Chooch, the reason why I went to a level 2 charger is to more readily take advantage of my utilities Time of Use Electrical rates. With the solar panels, I can sell power at 47 cents per KwH during the day, and buy at 12.7 cents at night when fueling up at night. It also is more efficient than a level 1 charger, but the efficiency gain is minor compared to the Time of Use savings. Also, I'm planning on getting a BEV in a couple of years, so the Level 2 charger can get used for the BEV in the future.
     
    Chooch likes this.
  12. oko

    oko Member

    I kept a kill-a-watt permanently connected to my Level-1 charger for Nissan Leaf. After a few months, kill-a-watt died, and all the plug holes on it were melted. So make sure you don't use it permanently with the charger. Occasional use should be okay.

    One thing I noticed is Leaf uses about 12 amps while Clarity uses about 10 amps when charging thru Level-1.
     
  13. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    What’s really killing your payback is that $2,000 installation cost. Unless you’ve got an old house and need to upgrade to a 200 Amp breaker box, that’s way too high. See post 28 on this thread for how I got mine installed for under $200.

    First, get several quotes and most importantly don’t mention the words electric car or solar as that will drive up the price. (Ask for a price to install a 240v dryer outlet in your garage and give them the length from breaker box to location of receptacle if they don’t wont to come out to estimate) Secondly, do mention that you are getting several bids and will take the lowest bidder that can start with in a week.

    If you are a DIY minded person or can get a DIY kind of friend to help, you can get the electrician cost down to the price of a 1 hour service call (plus parts you buy). All you have to do is buy the wire and circuit breaker (and receptacle if not a hard wired EVSE) and run the wire to the breaker box. Then have the electrician just hook it up which takes less than an hour. For mine I drilled a hole on the garage drywall and the wall’s top plate in the attic and pulled the wire over to the breaker box. Details are in the post.
    PM me if you have any questions and I’ll give you my phone #.

    Go to post 28:
    https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...nd-for-level-2-plug-in.1103/page-2#post-14379
     
  14. su_A_ve

    su_A_ve Active Member

    I came to the conclusion that installing a level 2 is pointless unless you can take advantage of time of day rates.
     
    Johnhaydev likes this.
  15. Odobo

    Odobo Active Member

    Just get a portable 1 that can plug into your drying machine outlet. You won't get the full benefit of a level 2 with 32A but it will only take 5 to 6 hours to charge and doesn't cost much
     
  16. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    It may not be totally necessary for some, but there is the convenience factor of not having to charge every single day if you only take a short trip that day. And if you take multiple trips totaling over 50 miles in one day from home you may be able to charge between trips.
    It just depends on your circumstances, mindset, and budget. I splurged and am glad I did due to convenience and being able to track my energy usage.

    @Odobo, I think that sounds like a 16 Amp Level 2 charger. Great price point for faster charging without going broke on a full 32 Amp one. I read in another post that all 240v chargers are Level 2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  17. Wayne Wilson

    Wayne Wilson Member

    I agree that even at bargain installation rates a Level 2 charger has a long payback at only 10-12% more efficient. What drove me to install one was convenience and it means I can run more of the time on EV mode (how much more depends upon your driving/day and that could be calculated and added to the ROI). In my case I had a local electrician install a NEMA 14-30 outlet right below my breaker box in the Garage and then purchased the Amazing-E 16A charger. It's not as fast as a 32A charger, but fast enough for our driving patterns. I also got a utility rebate from the power company which offset a lot of the cost. Even so, the payback is over 10 years if that's the only criteria.
     
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  18. Odobo

    Odobo Active Member

    Yes... Not all level 2 charger was created equal .... But I found the 16A 1 works the wonder for PHEV, if you don't want to keep plugging/unplugging the dryer you can get a gas buddy that function as a splitter, just make sure you don't run your dryer at high temp and charge your car at the same time
     
  19. David Poulson

    David Poulson New Member

    Hi Young,
    I appreciate your post. I'm trying to deal with the building a work in. They said they'd install a 110 outlet if I'd pay for the install and a meter. They claimed they wanted to be fair to all other tenants by not favouring me. I think a meter would be very expensive. I'd rather counter in my discussion with them, that if I generally have about a half charge and will be topping up only then I expect that I'd be plugged in for about 20 hours per week... 3 days, 6 hours per day. I'd like to say, flat rate bill me $x / month, but I'm trying to figure out what X would be. I'm in Toronto Canada, and I believe we are around $.20/kwh. Do you have any idea what I might use for $x to show them?
    Thanks in advance
    David
     
  20. Young J Kwak

    Young J Kwak Member

    Technically, you could possibly get a Kill-a-watt as a "meter", and then secure it with metal brackets to the outlet.
    This way, you could just pay the kWh's shown on the Kill-a-watt, and then reset it each month.
     

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