JuiceBox Woes

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by bfd, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    Nice Find !!
    I will keep my fingers crossed, but if it continues to work, this is a nice bit of lesson's learned that could potentially help others.

    WiFi is full of nuances, and it is always worthwhile to pursue potential systemic causes rather than assume a particular device is "bad" !
  2. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Just got the Pro 40 and all seems to be working very well. My net cost will be zero since my utility is offering a $500 rebate on the charger.

    My only glitch is that I charged from zero to 100 and although the charger did provide a full charge in 2 hours, the app showed a charge % of only 73%. The kWh consumed was accurate, but not the state of the charge. The Honda app accurately showed the 100% state of charge.
  3. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    This is not a 'glitch'... The trouble is that the EVSE (in this case, the JuiceBox) has no access to the battery state of charge. All that it knows (because it is defined in the settings) is the total battery capacity (in this case 17 kWh). One thing that would make the %charge indicated by the juicebox a little better would be to tell it that the battery capacity is only 14 kWh (because the Clarity reserves the rest, and never takes the full 17 kWh). This only 'works' with a full charge however. If you charge when it is not 'empty' then the reported %charge will be bogus accordingly.

    As you mention, the number of kWh delivered is always right which is the most important thing. The time required to charge is proportional to how low it is (100% charge ~ 2 hours, 50% charge ~ 1 hour, etc.) You will quickly learn what to expect.
    Ken7 likes this.
  4. bfd

    bfd Active Member

    Try setting the "added range" of charge to 53 miles in the app (appx. what a "complete charge" might be at 17kW), and do some experimenting from there … alternatively, you could consider that a "full charge" minus the hold back for HV use might be more like 45 miles (15kW) and start there. We leave ours at 55 miles. Since we use a Tesla provided charger for the Tesla on a different circuit, only the Clarity uses the JB.
  5. Emil Mackey

    Emil Mackey New Member

    Getting back around to the OP. I have had similar issues with the wifi not working. I am on a "demand Rate" (https://www.aelp.com/Customer-Service/Rates-Billing/Current-Rates) and need smart charging bad. The difference can be about $150/month, so wifi and "smart" functions are essential to maximize the value of the charging and minimize additional demand rate charges (https://www.aelp.com/Customer-Service/Rates-Billing/Current-Rates).

    In 2017, I purchased 2 Juiceplugs. I do not think they sell them anymore, but these juice plugs allow people to make any "dumb" charger a smart charger. Both lasted less than a year. Once they stopped working, it took over a year for the company to send replacements. Less than a year, they also quit working. The company refuses to replace them and is forcing me to buy new equipment. They offered a $160 credit for each juicebox I purchased. I just ordered two only because there is no other reasonable alternative for me in the current marketplace. I am HOPING the 32a Pro juicebox has better wifi cards than the juiceplugs, but am skeptical. I am also VERY displease that I have burned through four of these juiceplugs and the company refuses to support the second set that also lasted less than a year. Apparently, the warranty does not start over when they replace a faulty item. The warranty only covers the original date of purchase.

    I will be installing these new boxes when they arrive and let you know how they do. But the Juiceplugs ad TERRIBLE range. None of them could detect a wifi signal more than 50 feet from the router. The router is an ASUS AC3200 Tri-Band Gigabit WiFi Router, so range should not be an issue. I can pick up a signal from my cell phone for about 300 feet from the router. Why the wifi card has such terrible reception signals cheap low-grade wifi to me. I REALLY hope the wifi in the Juice Box is better. If not, I can vouch for the posts saying the wifi sucks.

    In sum... I think the wifi sucks, the support sucks, and the reliability sucks. But there is no better alternative for me. That REALLY sucks.
  6. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Hmm. Have my first issue. The unit went through its first charging cycle fine. Energy use was recorded and graphed properly. However the 2nd time, although the unit began charging fine, the Wifi connection was lost. Looking at the app or website would have you thinking the car was not charging (it is) since it shows the unit as ‘idle’.

    I had a rapidly blinking blue light and was unable to reconnect to my WiFi. Tech support saw the unit online and deemed it defective. A new unit is being sent.

    Color me concerned. I hope this is not going to be an ongoing issue.
  7. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    My JuiceBox, that’s about to be replaced, apparently has been able to communicate with the server. The problem, according to tech support, is the box is sending empty packets of information to the server. They can see my unit, but no info is being sent. Thus, even when charging, the unit is reporting ‘idle’. They claimed they’ve never seen this issue and are convinced my unit is defective. I should have a new unit by Thursday, so we shall see.
  8. bfd

    bfd Active Member

    Hope the new unit helps. This sounds all too familiar
  9. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Yeah, that’s what I’m afraid of too! Did they tell you that you were connected to their server, they could see your unit online, but it wasn’t sending viable packets of info? He claimed he had never seen this behavior before.

    In deference to tech support, I do think my issue might be unusual. It's not a question of finding my network, it always does. I see the unit on the website and see it on the app. In my case though, it's not sending out any information. Even when charging properly as it always does, the app & website shows it as 'idle'. So it doesn't seem to be an issue of connectivity, but rather something internal to the box that's just not sending out the information about its current state.

    As I look though reviews on this unit, I couldn't find one that mirrored my issue. So I'm hopeful that when the new box comes later this week, it will solve my problem...hopefully...please...crossed fingers. :)
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  10. bfd

    bfd Active Member

    Yes, I wasn't going to say anything, but since you asked, it's almost exactly what they said. They'd "ping" the unit and see it online, but the story was that the box wasn't sending back complete information. All of that said - before you get your new box if you can, try creating a new 'guest' network on 2.4 gHz. Don't put anything else on that network. When the new box gets here connect to that network only. It should have the same strength as the network you're on right now, but you will isolate the box on that network. It's what finally seems to have worked for us. We've been on almost the whole month. You have a Tesla, too. Does it have any problems on the network you're currently using for the JB? Anyway, try isolating the new JB on its own "guest" network. It can still have strong protection - it doesn't need to be an open network just because it's a guest network
    Ken7 likes this.
  11. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Same responses from tech support? That’s not encouraging.

    Yes, the Tesla is on the same Google network and never had an issue. Go figure. When I look at my devices on the network, the JB never shows up.

    I do have a guest network, password protected, set up with nothing on it. If I’m understanding you correctly, the ‘defective’ JB would work too if diverted to the guest network.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  12. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    I tried deleting my current JB and reinstalling it on the new guest network. Unfortunately the behavior was exactly the same. The app went through the steps and claimed the setup was successful. But I still have the same slow blinking blue light and the same 'idle' status on the JB app regardless of the actual activity.

    It looks like I can stand on my head and spit nickels and this thing won't transmit the necessary info. The only good thing thus far is that PSEG is paying for it. I don't think they'll be happy though if they can't communicate with the box.
  13. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Sorry y’all are having problems with your JBs. I did a lot of research on the ol’ internut before I bought my EVSE. There seemed to be a lot more people reporting problems with JBs and hardly any with ChargePoints. Both companies are large, established players in the EV industry, but it looked like JB had more QC problems than CP did. And on this forum there are many more posts about JB rather than CP problems. (Of course we don’t know the relative ratio of JB vs. CP ownership)

    My CP has been flawless and the app is very nice. Also, when I contacted their support line, I got great and timely customer service. Once was operator error on my part and once was to resolve what turned out to be a very weak WiFi signal in my garage. They even don’t make a big deal about referring you past customer service to their tech dept to resolve the hard problems. All in all, I’m glad I went with CP.
  14. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Thanks, Ken. I did quite a bit of research too, but there were 2 issues (for me) with ChargePoint that made me choose the JB. The CP actually would have been my first choice.

    First was the fact that I have a NEMA 14-50 outlet and CP uses a NEMA 6-50. I didn’t want to use an adapter to be able to use it. I don’t know why they don’t offer a 14-50 option.

    Second was the fact that you have to return the charging plug to the base after removal from the car to register a complete charging session. That’s a real limitation for me and it’s what I feel is a design limitation in the tracking of usage. I had called their tech support and they agreed it should have been designed to record the end of a session after the charging plug is either removed or charging stops.

    My outlet is on the far wall of my garage opposite the garage door. Thus I’d have to remove the charger plug, walk around the car to plug it in and then walk it back to the base. With the JB I have a holster for the plug right next to the charge port of the car. With these heavy duty, high amperage cords, the less moving you have to do the better.

    The only way around these issues is to have the outlet changed to a 6-50 and then have it relocated on a different wall. Not worth it for me.
  15. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    I know what you mean about the CP. My work around for the unattended never ending charge session is to set the CP timer to 2 1/2 hours. This works since all my charging is in the early morning.
    My work around for the odd plug was to direct wire. The CP doesn’t use a neutral, so you could just cap that off with a wire nut. In my case I just ran 8-2 which is cheaper than 8-3 and saved the cost of a receptacle too.

    I like everything about my CP except that it won’t let me charge to a user selected % SOC. JB was my 2nd choice.
    Ken7 likes this.
  16. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Ken, does setting the timer eliminate the need to hang up the plug in the charger base in order to record a session? IOW can you hang it up in a different holster located away from the CP holder?

    If you start a charging session with a 50% charge, the car will probably shut off the CP after about an hour anyway. So I’d guess the preset timer will be overridden.

    I’m also assuming you can begin a charging session any time you want and not be governed by a set time?

    Since I already have a NEMA 14-50 outlet, I’d buy the plug version as I did with the JB. But I’d need a 14-50 to 6-50 adapter.

    I just want to be prepared in case the new JB fails too.
  17. Mowcowbell

    Mowcowbell Active Member

    Regarding either the Charge Point or Juice Box EVSE's... does the J1772 plug fit easily on the Clarity? That is one thing I hate about my Zencar EVSE. It takes a LOT of force to connect and remove the J1772 connector from the car. I want one that easily snaps on like the Honda OEM unit.
  18. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    I can only speak to the JuiceBox and that connector is very easy to insert.
    Mowcowbell likes this.
  19. Ohliuw

    Ohliuw Member

    A bit off topic - has anyone installed the hardwired version outside ? If so - what Nema disconnect/junction box they used?
  20. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    For @Ken7:
    I find no need to have to insert the handle into the base to end a charging session. As soon as I unplug from the car, the session stops (blue glow at base turns green) and all data/graphs are available on the app. In fact, the base doesn’t know if the handle is even stored in the base or just lying around unplugged which is happening lately for me while a piece of furniture prevent access to the wall mounted base. Also the holster part of the wall unit swivels and I can find no way it could have a sensor.

    You’re right about the car controlling the CP EVSE. It stops the charge when full no matter how long you set the session in the CP app. The CP let’s me schedule a start and stop time which I only use to shift charging to early morning and to stop the CP from recording. Other wise it keeps recording a flat line (0 charging) and the charging part of the graph is too compressed to be readable.

    It also notifies me when the car has fully charged or if the session is interrupted. You can choose any or all: email, text msg, or push notification.

    And I can charge any time by just plugging in, removing, and replugging the handle within a few seconds.

    @Ohliuw, since my EVSE is inside the garage and in sight of the main breaker panel, my code did not require a separate disconnect box and its associated conduit. The feed wire just enters the rear of the Charge Point (through drywall from an “old work” box similar to an outlet) and is connected by push to close terminals that made installation cheap and easy. No need for a disconnect box or receptacle. If I move, I just take the EVSE, wire nut the ends of the wires, stuff them in the box, and but a 29 cent cover plate over it.

    @Mowcowbell, the Charge Point handle inserts fine as long as it’s inserted straight and not at an angle. A little dielectric grease on the connectors helped. And I had some dry Teflon spray that I put on the plastic parts. (Inside handle circular guard and outside circle on car port.)

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