Its not Rivian that is scaring Ford

Discussion in 'General' started by 101101, Feb 7, 2019.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    It isn't Rivian that is scaring Ford

    Ford has relented and is going to make a full electric F150 and to do it is has had to partner with VW. And now so has GM it seems. Musk said the Tesla Semi in a tug-o-war could pull any ICE Semi up a hill backwards.

    The Tesla pick-up per Musk will be able to tow 300K lbs. Note, that might be the limit not the rated capacity but it suggest a tow capacity about 4x what a typical semi is designed for and about a match for the biggest Cascadia engine the D16, but even that wouldn't have as much torque as early in the curve, so wouldn't be a smooth.

    The Tesla pick up may how tow power equal to 7.14 actual 2019 F-450 Limited Ford pickup trucks (F450: 34000lbs goose neck plus 8000lbs for truck.) Enough to win a tug with a ICE semi. In terms of piston and cylinders and price vs the F-450s in terms of F-450 parts it would be like a V56 with 44.3 liters and presumably it would only cost about what a Model X costs or about 30K less than the Tesla Semi, whereas it takes 7 units of F450 @ 90K $$ each to match or about a 630K $$ just to match power in F450 terms. But the Tesla pick up goes further with 4 wheel steer making it able to turn in place, and get from 0-60 at least 2x faster (presumably 3 seconds or under) than the F-450 and has a totally flat torque curve and instantaneous throttle response, better mileage than a Prius (saving the difference in price just on gas vs F450) while making almost no noise and doing it with comparatively no maintenance. It will also have a lower center of gravity and be better at fording and have a built in generator. And per Musk it would get 400-500 miles in range and if you really needed to go further without charging you could just put a range extending battery in the bed or tow it as part of a trailer load. And it can do all this with 0 (roof top home solar) to much less emissions even if it were charged with a coal utility. And naturally the Tesla will have Tesla's radically better self-driving and ever improving software system and much better surround ergonomics and safety features. It will also provide the torque vectoring or instantaneously responsive 4 wheel traction control that ICE can't match which will only be compounded by the 4 wheel steer for unprecedented off road ability.

    There is no way Ford can do a hybrid that can compete. Even having a disconnected locomotive style diesel would need to do the equivalent of rev first and pop the clutch but still not be remotely competitive in a race or a tug or on efficiency or noise or pollution or maintenance- or possibly even on weight (pending for sure.) Complex moving part ICE cannot practically and cost effectively provide the refined instant power or acceleration that a battery provides. Such a system would go from chemical to mechanical to electrical to mechanical where the Tesla system goes chemical-electrical-mechanical. The difference in removing a stage in terms of weight and complexity and ultimately real cost and performance is massive in Tesla's favor.

    These last 3 vehicles on Tesla's path to domination (roadster, semi and pick up) are really going to be crushing the competition with categorically superior performance. And if Tesla with 7 vehicles gets anywhere close to the 4-5 million vehicles a year by 2025 with the 10x to 18x reduction in vehicles on the road by 2025 predicted by Seba due to electronic autonomy its going to be huge hit to the likes of Ford-GM-FCA and all the rest. Its only a 100 million vehicle a year market globally and 5.5 million vehicles would be the whole market. Think about this in the face of the 20 million vehicle a year EV now on line production capacity China has going into this year. Ford is in trouble and it won't be able to hide behind jobs or fossil fuels lies like usual and it won't be able to count on another Republican administration but it will be facing blow back from people who want abusers like the EPA's Wheeler and the FCC's Pai behind bars.
     
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