Honda throws cold water on electric cars

There’s always the possibility that Americans will return to the nostalgic travel of the 1950’s, stopping at small towns and enjoying things along the way. And dilapidated towns in the middle of nowhere will become little trendy enclaves.

 

Even if they make all their cars EVs tomorrow, still they cannot sell 50m EV cars in a few years.

 

Yes and for me the switch to BEV will come when a car offers 250 miles of range and can be 100% recharged in 5-15 minutes. The price will also be an issue.

 

Batteries don't (and likely never will) work that way. The last 10% can only be charged at a much, much lower rate.
You can, however get ~200 miles in ~15 minutes today, and that rate continues to improve. Within the next 2 years, you may be shopping for a BEV

 

Aren’t there a whole bunch of people on this forum complaining about the measly 7 gallon gas tank and it’s 300 mile range? I’m pretty happy having the choice to use gas for long drives or electricity for my commute. Wouldn’t mind an extra 5 winter EV miles though!

 

To be fair Honda incentives should be listed at $0-6k because they're not offered in all states, and state rebates should be listed $0-5000 since most states don't have rebates either. That being said, I 100% agree with what you're saying, I think very few would sell.

 

Not a fan of a BEV? Yeah, that was quite obvious from your misleading comments on BEVs!

Well that’s just your opinion then, isn’t it. Judging by the fact that Tesla’s have the highest owner satisfaction of any car on the road, there appear to be many that disagree with you. I’m one of them. Until you’ve lived with and driven a Tesla extensively, you’ll never know the joy. Such is life. Oh, and BTW, I’ve recharged at superchargers numerous times and have yet to visit Barstow. But now knowing about Barstow, I’ll never buy another BEV again...hell, I’m selling my Tesla!

Look, I own a Clarity too and to be honest, I think it’s very shortsighted to not see the value in both PHEVs and BEVs. But tolerance on the internet is something I gave up on a long time ago.

 

Well, your BEV has essentially arrived. The Model 3 meets your range criteria easily (250-320) and the new Supercharger 3, that are now being deployed, will allow a Model 3 to charge at a rate of 1,000 miles per hour.

 

Well... nope! But it seems the same is true for gas. And I won't even mention housing...

 

I believe that only the top-spec long-range Model 3 (and the planned Model Y) is capable of benefiting from the Supercharger 3 as it features a different battery chemistry. From the Tesla blog:

"Faster Charging, No More Power Sharing
V3 is a completely new architecture for Supercharging. A new 1MW power cabinet with a similar design to our utility-scale products supports peak rates of up to 250kW per car. At this rate, a Model 3 Long Range operating at peak efficiency can recover up to 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes and charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour. Combined with other improvements we’re announcing today, V3 Supercharging will ultimately cut the amount of time customers spend charging by an average of 50%, as modeled on our fleet data."

 

Yes, and that’s why I didn’t mention the Model S or X, only the Model 3.

 

I understood that - I was adding a clarification that not ALL versions of Model 3 can use Supercharger 3, just the Long-Range model.

 

Yes, you are correct.

 

Yes, indeed they do. Honda is based in Japan, which isn't making any progress at all in replacing gasmobiles with EVs because of a chronic shortage in electricity, which charging BEVs would only make worse. The Japanese government is even strongly promoting fuel cell cars, which is obviously a sign of desperation because that's wholly impractical. So Honda ignoring the BEV market is, at least to some extent, understandable.

OTOH, Volkswagen is based in Germany, in Europe, where the EU and other countries are pushing hard for more strict emissions regulations. So VW has a strong economic incentive to develop BEVs that will sell well, both for its European market and for the U.S. market. Sure, the U.S. is currently undergoing a backward trend where the presidential administration is trying hard to undo all the advances in environmental regulations, but fortunately there is a lot of resistance to that, and at worst it's only going to last another 13.5 months. VW isn't planning for just the next year, but for at least the next 5 years, and they know the U.S. will be a strong market for BEVs starting in 2021, if not before.

Of course, the #1 market for BEVs is China. Funny thing: Toyota, despite steadfastly proclaiming that there is no market for BEVs and that fuel cell cars are the future of automobiles, now sells a BEV exclusively in the China market.

And another funny thing: An article dated Oct. 29 of this year says "Honda Motor Co. launched sales of its first full electric vehicle, the compact VE-1 crossover in China..."

If I didn't know better, I'd say there is a trend here!

 

Volkswagen has a very well established history of making vaporware promises about putting EVs into production, as well as a history of repeatedly making hyperbolic statements about how many EVs they're going to produce over the next few years after an announcement.

Nobody should expect that to stop. Just because VW is finally starting to move in a significant way toward making compelling plug-in EVs doesn't mean their hyperbole about becoming the unrivaled world leader in EV production is suddenly going to end!

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Thanks. That sort of helps make my point. If they’re not selling well with ~$15K in credits, incentives and rebates, they definitely won’t sell well with just a $7500 credit.

And since they’re virtually unavailable outside of California, the incentives that I mentioned would be available to many, if not most, buyers.

Three months ago there was not a single Clarity available in the state of Oregon, in any color or trim level. I had to arrange to have one delivered from California. Another buyer, from Washington, bought one from the same dealer a few days later.

 

Ken7,

I’m unsure what has triggered such a response. If you have taken anything I’ve said as intolerant, you have misinterpreted my words. Or, perhaps you’re saying that you are intolerant, which is fine. Because the minute I refuse to allow intolerant talk, I become intolerant.

Despite the fact that BEV’s range from a glorified golf cart to a super car, they are simply not my cup of joe.

I have not attacked your decision to opt for a BEV as a vehicle of choice and I won’t work myself into a lather over differing opinions. I’ve never viewed an inanimate object as being able to provide a true source of joy in my life, but I respect your opinion to feel that way.

Despite your misconceptions of me, I do see value in both BEV’s and PHEV’s. I prefer the PHEV.

 

Now that you’ve shared your political opinions and election forecast with us, how accurate was your prediction on the last election?

 

Our current administration is denying scientific evidence across the board, withdrawing our country from the Paris accords, suing car companies (including Honda) for cooperating with California and trying to overturn the established California emissions standards. Those are facts not opinions. Perhaps there is a better word to use then “backwards” as that is an opinion. How about “irresponsible “?

 

And, may I add, any such ideal car also has to be affordable! BMW, Audi, Volvo and some others will never get this -- not everyone can or will shell out well over $40K or $50K for any new car.