Honda Survey — Powerwall on four wheels?

I believe energy usage in the states has been essentially flat for quite some time, no? Most if not all of the planned decommissioned plants could be replaced by renewals, I would expect.

 

I would have gladly accepted a comment about my wording from probably anyone else on this forum, but not from someone who in my opinion can be very argumentative and insulting at times. I have noticed from reading earlier threads that you seem to have gotten into a lot of arguments on this forum, and are sometimes caustic to people who rarely if ever seem to deserve such treatment. I have seen many of the people who you treated this way respond politely. That was the case with me, you first accused me of making a straw man argument, then made what I felt could be interpreted (due to its wording) as an insult to people who might participate in V2G when you said “If people want to feed their vehicles energy into the grid and have that energy replaced later in the day/night, that’s just dandy. It is of no interest to me and it has nothing to do with altruism.”

I politely responded and gave what I hoped would be a more thorough explanation of the point that I was trying to make, which should have been sufficient to clear up any potential deficiencies in my wording. However rather than accepting my explanation, you informed me that my words came across as pretentious, while adding some new accusations when you suggested that I was casting aspersions on people’s altruism and financial savvy. The financial savvy one was especially mystifying.

From what I have seen this forum has a lot of good information and people trying to help each other. It’s the Internet and yes things can come across the wrong way. If you don’t like what people say or how they say it, I certainly don’t expect you to withhold your opinions for fear of hurting someone's feelings, but there are ways to express those opinions in a less hostile way.

 

I may not have misinterpreted your words after all.

 

I did he math on switching to time of use plans. I would pay more unless I made ridiculous changes in my energy usage. Even than, I would be luckily to save $10 a month. No thank you, I'll keep my current fixed plan at 10.5c kwh and live a normal life.


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That's exactly the point of V2G. If you have a BEV with 80-100 kWh (or more) in your garage, you draw from that during the peak times and recharge it at night. This allows you to load shift to the low cost off peak times in ways you otherwise couldn't. Need to crank the AC when you get home? Use the low cost power in your battery when electricity is expensive and recharge it later when it is cheap.

 

The counterpoint is that for some, it just isn’t worth the effort.

If you have a BEV in the garage at peak times, daytime, you’re either working the night shift or don’t have a job that necessitates the use of a vehicle. It might be time to consider a dedicated home battery system and a less expensive vehicle.

TOU plans don’t work for everyone, even if they have a BEV. It is also possible that the TOU rates could become less favorable as more people participate in these programs. Night time might become peak time. And with a large number of BEV’s connected to the grid at peak hours, there could be a surplus of energy available. Balancing the supply and demand needs of the power grid is an admirable goal. Doing so, with EV’s could disincentivize the program. If those folks with $60K cars can’t save $.50/day on their electric bill, they could get angry.

 

Peak times are no longer daytime, but rather in the evening (and to some degree in the morning). this has become known as the "Duck Curve".

https://www.nuscalepower.com/environment/renewables/the-duck-curve#:~:text=The%20Duck%20Curve%20is%20a,solar%20energy%20throughout%20the%20day.&text=Energy%20demand%20reaches%20peak%20in,P.M%2C%20the%20duck's%20head).

EVs load shaving in the evening are not the entire solution, but can be a big piece.

Because an individual (or percentage of individuals) do not want to use a particular feature does not negate it's overall value. V2G capability in a vehicle is a definite plus for both manufacturers and consumers (as a group - not necessarily every single one).

Some individuals look beyond the "I" and towards the "We". Others don't and if something does not provide an instant benefit (usually monetarily) to them and/or is even a little inconvenient for them it is dismissed and berated.

 

It seems some individuals completely misjudge others and attempt to marginalize their beliefs, simply because they disagree.

Clearly you have all the answers. Shame on the rest of us for considering alternative views.

 

Sometimes people will use actual facts and include links to refute misinformation in what others post.

I am not questioning anyone's belief as to how much V2G may or may not benefit them personally and whether they should implement it in their specific situation with their value set.
But I do want to provide accurate information to those that may be open to considering benefits they may not have considered.

 

I suggested a dedicated home battery system. Wouldn’t that allow for storage of the “potential over generation” (that should probably be one word, but I’ll go with what the guy put on the chart) shown in the chart? Might that be a viable option? Or is that misinformation to be refuted? What if all the EV’s aren’t plugged in at peak times to supplement energy shortages? A home battery could be connected 24/7.

I also suggested that TOU plans which may be favorable now, may become less favorable at some point in the future. Perhaps that’s just an opinion, but I have seen how plans such as these sometimes go awry. Is that misinformation in your book?

Ok, I botched the “peak times” I should have put a question mark on that one. The chart does show the potential excess capacity to be when demand is below 18K megawatts, which appears to be roughly 9am-5pm, the hours when many folks have driven their cars off to work. Without sufficient infrastructure, wouldn’t those batteries be nearly useless in storing excess energy if they’re sitting in a parking structure at work?

 

And sometimes they get changed. The TOU plan I got back in 2018 when we got the Clarity is no longer offered. Fortunately, we are grandfathered for awhile, but at some point we will be moved to what they are currently offering which is not nearly as good.

 

Uh, no. Clearly not. Wholesale price of wind power in Texas goes negative during the night because they have more generation than usage.

 

Why buy a home battery system when if you already have one parked in your garage?
And I have stated that V2G EVs are only a piece of the puzzle - load shaving during the evening is likely the most common benefit for the 9-5 crowd.
Buffering the grid can be accomplished in a number of ways not necessarily tied to V2G. Workplace but charging has multiple benefits as it can utilize some of the excess capacity (and benefit the large % or people that don't have the capability to install charging at home - apartments, etc). Second life for EV batteries installed by the utility to capture the excess capacity during the day. All are pieces to the puzzle and V2G EVs ft quite nicely as part of the complete solution. No single component solves the challenges in optimizing the grid to demand, but V2G is a very low cost option and a way to utilize existing resources.

The original question was whether an EV making its battery available to the home was useful.
My opinion is most definitely. You seem to think spending many thousands of dollars on a dedicated battery is a much better solution.

Using your EV as a low cost V2L system is also attractive, and for full backup it could easily be used in a V2H system - at least as a supplemental battery. If I can plug in my fridge and my gas furnace blower on a V2L EV, it would be a near no cost solution that would prevent losing food in a power outage and keeping warm.

 

In fact, in my neck of the woods that is already happening. The TOU plan implemented by our utility has what they call “day ahead” pricing. So each day you can view what the prices will be for each hour of the upcoming day. It used to be a very dramatic difference between the ‘peak’ and ‘non-peak’ times but that has changed. For now, the best time for me to charge is usually still around 1 AM but that could change in the near future.

 

What if the car isn’t parked in the garage when the power goes out, or the grid needs to be fed? A dedicated home system is always available to meet those needs.

I presented it as an option. It is an option for anyone who doesn’t wish to purchase an EV. It’s an option for someone who prefers to buy a car, of any type, that is less expensive than a BEV. Buy a Clarity for a net cost of $25K, rather than a $40K Tesla and there’s $15K available for a 10-20kWh home battery, and money to spare. It could be charged from a solar array or charged with cheap electricity and used to run the house when electricity is expensive. It’s connected 24/7, so options are aplenty. And if we’re only shaving 3-5kWh’s how much capacity do we need?

You are fortunate to have gas in Portland, with all the activists who are opposed to it in the state. I have solar and battery back up. It could, possibly run the heat pump, but isn’t wired to do so. It would die a quick death if the supplemental resistance heat was necessary. Such are the disadvantages of going all electric when there is no electricity. So, I have an efficient, EPA approved, wood burning fireplace insert for the main living areas and a propane heater in the bonus room. I also have a dual fuel generator and a generous supply of propane. The electric water heater was replaced with an on demand propane unit and the electric dryer was also replaced with a propane unit.

We plan to enhance both the solar array and the battery bank, as last years fires were a learning experience. 8 days without electricity and after smoke covered the area on the second day, solar generation was reduced dramatically. For us, an EV will not be part of the plan.

I realize that these must all sound like stupid, misinformed ideas to you, so I’ll do you a favor and not engage in any further conversations with you.

 

My EVSE is linked to the utility and pulls pricing data dynamically. While not fully implemented yet, you will tell your EVSE/utility the target time you want the charge completed, and the lowest cost way to achieve that will be implemented.

 

It sounds great in theory. But I bet it fails in actual use. Time will tell. If it's all the rage in 30 years then the next generation can subscribe. I'll be too old to care.


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Because resell value of a car with a compromised battery

QUOTE="DucRider, post: 128373, member: 9057"]Why buy a home battery system when if you already have one parked in your garage?
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Absolutely! In order not to compromise the battery, it is best to get it down to ~40% SOC and then hold it and the vehicle in a 58 degree humidity controlled environment. Don't drive the vehicle or charge/discharge the battery and you will maximize it's life!

Seriously, drawing a few kWh in the evening to load shave is not going to have a significant impact on a BEV battery (about like driving 5-10 miles). This forum is sometimes so focused on PHEVs they forget (or refuse to acknowledge in some cases) the advantages of a BEV. Bigger batteries have more advantages than just more range.
Using your BEV battery in a situation where the power goes out (lookin at you Texas) to keep your house somewhat warm and preventing the loss of your freezer contents would be worth a few days driving draw. This is not "30 years in the future" stuff.


https://www.dcbel.energy/blackout-power/

There is demonstrable value in using an EV battery as supplemental emergency power or as load shaving etc. Not every individual will choose to participate (or have a suitable EV), but that is no reason to dismiss the concept as unrealistic or without merit.

Not rocket science - just an adaptation of much larger grid level management scaled to individual users. Collectively it will make an impact.
As ICE vehicle sales are curtailed, more and more EVs will be available to pitch in a little here and there.