Charging anomaly

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by jdonalds, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Today was my visit to Honda to address this charging issue. I prepared a three page document with a description of the problem, and I let them know that I know my car quite well, and track it daily with data. I included a few photos of the screenshots from the JuiceBox.

    Here is the text entered by the technician (All spelling and punctuation copied exactly):

    "Caused by
    CALLED HONDA-TECHLINE ON THE CONCERN, THEY
    ADVISED TO PERFORMED SERVICE BULLETIN #18-097
    CLARITY FAILS TO CHARGE OR FINISH CHARGING TO SEE
    IF THAT FIXES THE CONCERN, POSSILE BATTERY
    CHARGING SOFTWARE ISSUE
    Tech: SOU Saechao (214)
    UPDATED BATTERY CHARGING SOFTWARE PER BULLETIN
    #18-097 LO# 1185B3 DEFECT CODE# 03214 SYMPTOM
    CODE# 03217 TEMP ID# A18097A FAILED PART#
    1C601-5WP-A01 .2HR"

    So the attempt is to correct a software charging issue. I'm to drive the car to see if there is a behavior change. The first charge resulted in a good charge graph but the EV Range only reads 43 miles. We'll see what transpires over the next few days.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  2. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    If the software update does the trick that would be great. Too many of us really want to know if that worked. Keep us posted.
     
  3. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    Sounds like a reasonable first course of action. I hope it fixes it for you.
     
  4. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Didn't work. The charge graph currently being formed shows the same charge anomaly. I'll be setting up a follow up appt. with Honda.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I took the Clarity in to Honda for a followup appointment today. They decided they wanted to keep it for a couple of days, using their own charge station. I know the JuiceBox is not part of the problem but accept they have to prove it for themselves. I keep telling them my only concern is they will tell me there's nothing wrong with the car.

    Waiting...
     
  6. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    I would be surprised if their charging station gave them this level of visibility. They will quite likely hook it to their charger and declare victory when the car reaches "full" on the EV bar graph. This will neither confirm or deny the specific symptom that you are experiencing.
     
    jdonalds likes this.
  7. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Active Member

    I'm assuming this is either 1) a problem with balancing within the cells of the battery (battery problem) or 2) a problem with the battery management system of the Clarity. Is this where y'all have ended up? Also, I don't have the luxury of seeing a graph like this to monitor my charging at home. I have logged into the Chargepoint app when using Chargepoint public chargers at work. A graph like this is available when the car is connected to the charger (even after charging is completed), but the resolution is not as high as this. I think it averages power input every 5 minutes, so the some of the detail is lost. It should still show a reduction where this "spikey" behavior starts to kick in prior to completion of charging, so I think it would still show this behavior, just not as clearly. I think after reading through this thread, I will make it a habit to check mine once in a while to try to watch for this. I generally just plug it in, and unplug after charging, and have had the I don't need to know more attitude since the charging is free. I may alter that at least once in a while to be more aware if something is amiss...
     
    jdonalds likes this.
  8. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    As has already been said by someone upstream, we wouldn't expect to see the BMS trying to do a cell-balancing routine for 12 days in a row. That's certainly not normal.

     
  9. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Active Member

    I agree. That's why I called it a problem, not normal behavior. I think that Honda should own up to there being a problem here either in the battery or in the BMS.
     
  10. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    Can the dealer loan you a Clarity to charge on your JuiceBox to compare?
     
    Mark W likes this.
  11. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Active Member

    Hate to keep beating the same drum that JuiceBox and a poster who reposted their comment already made, but I don't see how the JuiceBox could possibly initiate this. The car controls the charging rate (loading on the 240V supplied by the EVSE). The JuiceBox simply supplies the Voltage and a current up to the maximum allowed (either fuse in the EVSE or the circuit breaker). It doesn't alter the voltage or current supplied to the connected load. The connected load is changed by the car.
     
  12. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    What state are you in? I know a Clarity that would be available for a free charge. :)

    What are you having for dinner tonight? (did I push it too far?)
     
    Robert_Alabama likes this.
  13. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Interesting idea.
     
  14. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    If another Clarity does not have the same reaction then you have proof positive that your Clarity is doing something different. On the flip side if another Clarity does the same thing then perhaps you can use that to convince JuiceBox to send another unit.

    I would be happy to try my Clarity on your JuiceBox but I am in NJ. Surely on this forum there are others with both a JuiceBox and Clarity that can compare graphs with you. Perhaps even someone in driving distance where you can go to them or they to you or both.
     
  15. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Active Member

    I know that several would like to believe might be the JuiceBox, but I'll bet you the proverbial chicken dinner it is not. The EVSE is a dumb item (other than some monitoring and scheduling abilities for some). It closes a relay to provide 240V to the car. The car decides how much power and how long to take it. When the car is charged or the button is pushed to release the J1772 plug, the relay opens back up. It does nothing to regulate the flow of power to the car. That said, I guess there is potential that the 240V is supply is fluctuating, but I find this very doubtful as well as it would probably burn up something if it is a loose connection, and if the whole bus is moving around, then lights would flicker (even 120V ones) and electronics would probably be complaining. It also wouldn't just happen at the second half of the charging cycle. Again, chicken dinner bet.
     
  16. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    My guess is the Clarity is managing a faulty cell... But it has not reached the level of warrantee replacement. I guess a few more data points would show whether or not other batteries are experiencing the same thing, but would not guarantee action by Honda.

    For the EE's: How does the Clarity manage the power from the EVSE? Does it connect the cells in different patterns to achieve amp draw? I am amazed the curve is so steady, and accurate. I am wondering how complicated the system would have to be... but I guess they are converting AC to DC for the battery, so there could be pulse-width modulation to a transformer...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  17. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    Surely there is another Clarity within driving distance to Redding, California
     
  18. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    Surely there is someone else using a JuiceBox on their Clarity... I am just wondering if I have an amperage recorder that would give similar resolution to put on my charger...
     
  19. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Ideally, to isolate the problem, there should be another Clarity PHEV charged at Jdonald's location, using the same setup and the same charger, to see if the problem is replicated; and also, for additional data, Jdonald's EVSE needs to be taken to someone else's house to charging there, both using Jdonald's Clarity PHEV and someone else's. Preferably a house in a different neighborhood, to eliminate the possibility of fluctuations in power coming from the grid.

    That would be the proper, scientific method of testing. Until that happens, I think it's premature to say the problem can't possibly be this or that. It seems likely that Jdonald is dealing with a low-probability phenomenon.

    Fortunately, from what Jdonald reports, this seems to be a repeatable phenomenon. If it was an intermittent fault, that would make it much more difficult to identify the source.

    "It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -- Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of the Beryl Coronet" by Arthur Conan Doyle

     
    The Gadgeteer likes this.
  20. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Active Member

    I tend to lean towards Occam's Razor, the scientific principle that, all things being equal, the simplest answer is usually the right one. (to quote Jodie Foster in Contact). It is highly unlikely it is anything but the Clarity doing this.
     
    jdonalds likes this.

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