Carlos Ghosn arrested

Discussion in 'General' started by jdbob, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    New management process in place for Renault Nissan Mitsubishi alliance.

  2. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    Getting political.

  3. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Wow, that's interesting. Is there anything that links the two situations to infer they're connected?
  4. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    Ghost's detention increased another 10 days.

  5. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I can't imagine that one has anything to do with the other. And if projects to develop Generation IV thorium nuclear reactors are being cancelled, perhaps that is a result of the rapid progress in developing even newer, better designs for truly fail-safe micro-reactors, such as NuScale's SMR (Small Modular Reactor) project.

    On the other hand, the following articles are certainly relevant to the subject of this thread:

    From NBC "Japan-France spat over Renault-Nissan brews as Ghosn remains jailed"

    From Bloomberg: "Macron Tells Abe He Wants to Preserve Renault-Nissan Alliance"

  6. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    The French media are going to be up in arms if this goes ahead.

  7. gooki

    gooki Active Member

  8. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Sad. Looking more and more like it's politically motivated, not to mention apparently a symptom of Japanese prejudice against foreigners.
  9. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    Smelling fishier ever day.

    7 month long investigation prior to the arrest.

    Detained suspects for two weeks.

    And still insufficient evidence to lay charges. Looks like their plan is to incarcerate them indefinitely to force a confession. Ghosn didn't get to where he is by being weak.
  10. gooki

    gooki Active Member


  11. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    Domenick likes this.
  12. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks for keeping us up to speed on this. So much going on, it's hard to keep up on important stories like this.
  13. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Yes indeed!

    @gooki: Thank you very much for the time and effort you've put in on keeping abreast of the news on this subject, and summarizing that for us.

    Reminds me of a comment long ago on the now-defunct TheEEStory forum:

    “C’mon people. I didn't sign up for cadre membership to NOT be spoonfed information.” --Fibb
    :p ;) :cool:
  14. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    Happy to help. Nissan is always interesting to me. I've owned three Nissan's, two of them being S13 Silvia's.

    It's going to be hard to prove the post retirement renumeration offers are a done deal if there's various versions with different signatures, and no single version with all signatures.
  15. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

  16. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Holy $@*#! :eek:

    That was very eye-opening for this "round-eye". I had no idea the criminal justice system worked that way in Japan.
    Domenick likes this.
  17. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I asked my (Japanese-born and raised) wife today what she thought of the situation. She just assumes Ghosn is guilty and believes the justice system there to be completely normal. She was surprised to hear others outside of Japan might think differently.
  18. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I think it's human nature to think of most habits and behaviors in the culture in which we were raised, as being "completely normal", regardless of what they are or were. In fact, the term "cultural norm" describes that.

    And I don't think we Americans are in much of a position to throw stones, either. Despite the American ideal of "presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", most Americans assume that anyone arrested for any crime is guilty. And the news media more or less just as bad, delivering news as if the person had already been convicted of what they are only accused, merely throwing in the word "alleged" or "allegedly" here and there to avoid a lawsuit.

    There's a great movie about how the U.S. criminal justice system falls very short of the American ideal: "...And Justice for All". Everyone should see that and think about it.

    Okay, down off my soapbox now.

  19. specialgreen

    specialgreen New Member

    I find it frustrating that most news accounts imply that Ghosn stole millions, and did not report it. I think the casual reader assumes that he received money (theft), and didn't report it to income tax authorities (tax evasion). If an article said "Renault chairman approved massive golden parachute for his own planned 2020 retirement, and didn't account for his 2020 retirement within his 2012 income as reported on corporate financial statements to the CAC index", then readers would just shrug.

    In the US, deferred compensation would be entered as a liability on the books of the corporation, but not reported as income for tax purposes by the grantee. I have no idea whether that would be reported to a US trading market as compensation, let alone to a Japanese trading market. But I'm dubious. Future payment of deferred compensation is not guaranteed: if the corporation goes bankrupt, or in some cases if it is subject to a takeover or merger, then it could be gone. Declaring it as compensation seems speculative, and would also be confusing later-on: if it was reported in market filings in 2012, but was paid-out (and not reported as executive compensation) in 2020, that would also confuse investors.

    Regarding the misuse of funds, if one of the properties was indeed transferred to Ghosn with his knowledge (e.g. he signed a quit-claim deed), then that would be theft (and possibly tax evasion). It's unclear how the property was "transferred" to him. The numbers would be much smaller, but that's still enough to get him removed from Renault.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
    Domenick likes this.
  20. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    While perhaps the U.S. government is in no position to cast stones in some instances, individuals of whatever nationality can criticize governments and larger societal structures. Just because you live or a country or within a cultural group, doesn't mean you can't be critical of same.

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