Can small Clarity battery last long if driving EV mode all the time?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Jimmy Vo, Aug 29, 2020.

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  1. It’s really easy to keep a couple of 5 gallon fuel containers in the garage. That’s good for 400 miles with a Clarity. It’s not so easy to keep 125kWh’s of electricity in the garage to put 400 miles in a BEV.

    The beauty of the PHEV, electricity and gas are both options.

    Bacon taco. Your argument is invalid.
     
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  3. DucRider

    DucRider Well-Known Member

    This started with "I only had 11 miles left and needed 25", and I pointed out even a short range BEV would have had plenty of range. It then became "but what if I forgot to charge"? And then I can always find gas. And then even if you can't find gas you can plan ahead enough to keep multiple cans of gas in the garage.

    If you had an average range BEV, forgetting to charge one, two, or even three nights when your daily drive is about 35 miles (if he had 11 left) will leave you with plenty of range for the specified emergency trip. Yes, we can all come up with various scenarios where a specific vehicle of any type will have problems, but needing 60 miles on short notice instead of 47 does not dictate that a PHEV is a better choice.
     
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  4. The Clarity BEV is a short range BEV. It wouldn’t be unrealistic to arrive home having less than 25 miles of range with such a vehicle. Expecting to charge for a few hours, or overnight, a sudden emergency arises that requires a one way trip of 25 miles. The BEV is useless. Then there’s the return trip to consider.

    A PHEV is a far superior vehicle for the situation. Hell, a 12mpg pickup truck and a 5 gallon can of gas would be a better option.
     
  5. DucRider

    DucRider Well-Known Member

    Am I missing something? He had traveled about 35 miles and needed to go another 25. What exactly makes the 12 mpg pickup better than an 89, 100, 150, 280, 300, or 400 mile BEV for that situation?
     
  6. Kerbe

    Kerbe Well-Known Member

    And yet there are some who don't have the ability to charge their BEV at home but live or work near a DC charging station so they do, indeed, charge there nearly every day. I have a friend like that in FL - she bought a Tesla MS and stops for happy hour/dinner near a Supercharger every day on her way home from work. Her Tesla came with free Supercharging for life so she has no incentive to install at-home charging.
     
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  8. Jimmy Vo

    Jimmy Vo Member

    If you are negligent, PHEV nothing to do in term of helping you. You can let your car with an empty gas tank as well, your case, you are just lucky to have gas in your tank. Your case has nothing to do with PHEV over BEV. People with a negligent habit, they don't fill up their gas tank, it won't help them either.
    For your case, because you reach 11 miles because you have a small battery, you almost hit that range after a decent drive. If you have BEV, you always have at least 50 miles left after a long drive. Then you charge, that's what most BEV people do. They always charge at 30% and up, which is around 70 miles range left. But if you decide to run all the way down to a few charges left, then you will have a problem with gas too because of your negligent habit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
  9. Jimmy Vo

    Jimmy Vo Member

    Well, too me, if you cannot charge at home, then you should not buy PHEV too let alone BEV. This case has nothing to do with the argument of BEV people always use DC charging. I meant, if you cannot charge at home, PHEV won't help you either...
     
  10. Jimmy Vo

    Jimmy Vo Member

    I think people are bound to the limitation of the battery range of Clarity, then they think gas backup is an good idea if their range is more than 50 miles. I remember 1 poster said he Clarity is very good for him because of 95% of his driving less than 50 miles, but once a week, he needs to drive 100 miles, therefore, has back up gas is good, he thankful that Clarity has backup gas. This is an invalid argument, if he has a BEV, the BEV would cover his range why worry about gas.
    To me, the only advantage of PHEV over BEV is a long road trip where you have to drive thousands of miles when you just stop by 5mins to fill up gas vs 45mins with Fast DC charger.

    As for the daily commute, even sometimes you have to drive 200miles, I don't see any advantage PHEV over BEV.
     
  11. Pooky

    Pooky Active Member

    It works well for my use case. The EV range is enough for me to commute every day (or at least that was the plan before COVID-19) and I have the ICE for when I travel intrastate to the middle of the Washington desert to visit my family, or for when I travel between Washington and California to visit friends. There was an argument to be made that a long-range Tesla could serve my needs or possibly a Bolt, but I didn't want to buy a Tesla for personal reasons and it would have been twice as expensive anyway. The Clarity is also a much nicer car than a Bolt for the same price. Ultimately, the Clarity was a good fit for me because I ended up using it for a 700 mile family road trip between my home, Bend OR, and Richland WA only a couple weeks after buying it. Doing that in a Bolt would have been miserably uncomfortable. Now that summer is over, it will be relegated mostly to running errands and buying groceries, which it is perfectly suited for.
     
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  13. Yes, you are missing something. He never said he drove 35 miles. He got home, after a long trip with 11 miles of EV range remaining, the power was out and he suddenly needed to travel 25 miles to deal with an emergency. Had that situation occurred with a BEV, regardless of theoretical maximum range of the BEV, he would have needed another vehicle that wasn’t entirely dependent on electricity to make the trip in a timely fashion.

    The fully charged range of the BEV is irrelevant. If you arrive home with a depleted battery and unexpectedly have to drive a distance that exceeds the remaining range, you will need to charge the battery prior to the trip. That will take some time. If the power is out and you happen to have a backup generator, and fuel, charging may be limited to L1. That will take even more time.

    If you have an ICE vehicle that’s low on fuel and 5 gallons of fuel, you’ll be on you way in a few minutes. Even if it is a gas guzzling truck.
     
  14. You’re actually doing a pretty good job of demonstrating some negative attributes of a BEV while at the same time ignoring some positive attributes of a PHEV.

    With a PHEV, the battery capacity can be fully utilized. It isn’t necessary to seek out a charging station when it gets to 30% SOC. In the Clarity, in can even be charged while driving. Try that in a BEV.

    The battery in a PHEV can be fully depleted and there will still be more than 250 miles of range remaining with a full tank of gas. The fuel tank could be run dry and there would be 40-50 miles of EV range remaining with a fully charged battery.

    Never using 30% of the capacity in a BEV means that 150 mile range is only 100, or that 300 mile range is only 200. Yes, those examples represent a 33% reserve.

    There’s no negligence in depleting a PHEV battery to 0% SOC, if there’s still gas in the tank. Many of us take pride in arriving at our destination with 0 EV range.
     
  15. If you can’t charge at home, you’re probably living in a tent at homeless shelter.

    Let’s say you receive a voucher at the shelter for a new or used Clarity PHEV. You’ll be able to charge the battery while driving around town.

    Many owners do this now, as it is less costly to operate the vehicle using gas than electricity. It’s a great option, and yet another advantage of a PHEV over a BEV.
     
  16. DucRider

    DucRider Well-Known Member

    Assuming that his daily travels would eat up all but 11 miles of range no matter the size of the battery and range of the vehicle makes no sense whatsoever. If he had been driving a BEV, he would have had 50 to 350 miles remaining and the 25 miles would not have been an issue.
     
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  17. There’s nothing limiting or binding about the EV range in a PHEV. It’s a feature, an option. It can be used or not used, whenever, wherever, in full, in part.

    I view the the EV option, ICE option, the lack of a need to search out charging stations and the ability to charge on the fly as advantages over a BEV.

    Almost every statement that you’ve made in this thread indicates that you failed to do your due diligence prior to purchasing a vehicle. You made a poor choice. It’s no big deal. We all do it.

    Now, you’ll have to decide if you can live with the car or find something that has more advantages.
     
  18. Jimmy Vo

    Jimmy Vo Member

    I think is pointless to argue if you take driving behavior of PHEV applies to the driving behavior of BEV, then say BEV cannot do this. People that drive BEV have different behavior, they don't drive all the way to %0 SOC. Your examples are for driving behavior of PHEV, since the battery is small, you drive 50 miles so to 0% SOC and rely on gas is very common since the battery is small. For BEV people, they do not come to that scenario %0 SOC since they still have hundreds of miles range. Take an example of a small and depleting scenario with gas backup of PHEV to BEV that has a much larger battery is not a valid argument. You claim you can charge the battery while driving, I wonder how often you drive that HV charged mode. Even you drive that mode, how much miles range you can get for the charge? Like 10 miles. Why would BEV care with extra 10 miles where it can hold hundreds of miles.
    Anyway, I am not trying to bash PHEV, certainly, it has some advantages. Like a long road trip, for sure PHEV is better since you stop 5 mins and fill up the gas.
    But the argument of driving 50 miles running out of battery then have gas to back it up does not make sense. Like the poster said he drove a drip that has 11 miles left, btw, he had to drive 35 to 40 miles to have 11 miles left since Clarity only has a 50miles range. The 11 miles left is because of Clarity small battery, with BEV, you never have an issue after you drive 50miles.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
  19. Jimmy Vo

    Jimmy Vo Member

    Yes, he might never say he drove 35 miles, but based on logic thinking since Clarity only has a 50miles range, we assume he drove 35 to 40 miles with EV.
    This 11miles range left would never happen if he had BEV.
     
  20. DucRider

    DucRider Well-Known Member

    Huh what?
    My choice of vehicle was never brought into this conversation, I'm completely happy with it, works great for our needs, will be replacing it with another BEV when when it's time is done, will be replacing our second vehicle with a BEV as well.

    The OP posting that a BEV would not have worked in that particular situation would only have been true if his BEV had only 48 miles of range. The lowest range BEV currently offered in the US is the Mini at 110 miles.

    I've said this before in other threads - I advocate for all EVs (BEV and PHEV) in many public events and venues and have done so for over 6 years. I have very likely recommended a PHEV as the best choice for someone I am engaging with many, many more times than you have. But only if the information they provide indicates it might be a better fit than a BEV.
     
  21. I haven’t assumed anything. You’ve assumed that every BEV driver starts each trip with a fully charged battery, drives 35 or so miles and arrives at their destination with 50-350 miles of range remaining.

    Let me ask, Do you always arrive at your destination with at least 50 miles of range remaining in your Clarity BEV?

    The car has a stated range of 89 miles. Do you always charge after traveling 39 miles? When the Portland winter sets in, range must decline to 60-65 miles. Do you charge every 10-15 miles?

    You seem unwilling to consider any conditions that don’t align with your preconceived notions, when many other possibilities exist.

    I have numerous coworkers who charge their BEV’s, for free, at work on Friday in order to do most or all of their weekend driving at no cost. They nurse the car back to work on Monday, quite frequently with as little as 10 miles of range remaining. This is a source of pride for them. Not everyone lands with 50 or more miles of range.

    It makes no sense to me, that you can’t grasp that concept.
     
  22. The comments were not about your choice of vehicle.

    Read it again. It’s not about you. Really.
     
  23. Agzand

    Agzand Active Member

    If a 300 mile EV was the same price as a PHEV, then you could say that. But there is no BEV that can go 200 miles reliably on highway and cost $34k. The cheapest option is about $38k (Tesla standard range) and even that car cannot go 200 miles at 75 mph in colder weather.

    Then there is the issue of charging when you travel 200 miles. It is not always easy or convenient to find a charger at your destination when you travel, particularly on a peak travel day. When I travel I want to use my time for whatever reason I traveled for, not searching half an hour for a charger, or wait for another car to finish charging.
     

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