Another fire Truck??

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by David Green, May 12, 2018.

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  1. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    CT
    Don't say "whatever you call it", because I think a BIG problem is what they call it. It's called autopilot. What does that mean to 95% of people? Tesla chose to call it that because it sounds really cool. Much of their success is due to that the fact that their cars are really cool. The cool sexiness of their cars is why so many people will pay $50,000 and much higher for them.

    I'm sure that there were some people in Tesla's development process that said it's not a good idea to call it Autopilot. They analyzed it and said that if they use the term "Autopilot" it will appeal to X% more people, and sell XX,XXX more cars.

    I think the links that Martin posted previously are important. There is a point where a certain percentage of driving autonomy is really dangerous. If my car on autopilot will steer and stop itself successfully 75% of the time, what will I do? PAY ATTENTION! 90%? Pay attention. 99.9%? I'm probably not paying as close attention as I should. There is some % that is the most dangerous. I don't know exactly what that percentage is, but I'm sure there are studies that have been done on it.
    https://medium.com/self-driving-cars/blurring-the-line-between-level-2-and-level-3-d16529794e1

    The term Autopilot should not be used if a car cannot stop itself if it suddenly encounters a stopped vehicle.
     
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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Our end-of-lease, 2014 BMW i3-REx came with dynamic cruise control and automatic emergency braking. Optically based, it has problems in some lighting conditions and turns itself off. I knew it would be good but even with these limitations, it exceeded my expectations. After BMW motor mount bolt broke, I had to revert to our backup, 2010 Prius, and reverting to earlier technology.

    Having only fixed speed, cruise control, I replaced the 2010 Prius with a new 2017 Prius Prime that comes with dynamic cruise control, automatic emergency braking, and a lane wander alert (TSS-P). Both radar and optically based, it eliminated the optical-only problems and works in fog and poor lighting conditions. It has become a mandatory requirement for our cars.

    It took about 2-3 weeks of practice to become comfortable with these systems. A single test drive will terrify anyone without this practice. But once over the learning curve, they eliminate a lot of monotony and 'busy work' driving in traffic or cross country. BTW, you don't have to turn them ON anymore than you don't have to sleep with a pillow. But it makes driving such cars ever so much easier.

    I don't care if it is called 'Sweet Violets'. Our two cars are so much improved because they have them, I'm not going back. If they terrify others . . . fine by me. Whatever cranks your tractor.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  4. I think people becoming too comfortable with the technology is a fair point to bring up and discuss. I'm not sure if we can accurately gauge whether this overconfidence in a system is a net gain or loss in crashes, though. On one hand, there's no doubt that it has prevented many crashes, according to the many owners who have written about their experiences. On the other, we have people not paying attention and slamming into firetrucks.
    Of course, every day people without any ADAS system also crash because they are looking at their phone instead of the road.

    For what it's worth, the Tesla system can stop itself if it suddenly encounters a stopped vehicle at lower speeds. Every system has a speed limit at which it ceases to work reliably. I think Mercedes may offer a higher speed ability, while Jaguar's is lower.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  5. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    CT
    I believe you. In your Prius, it is not called Autopilot. The CEO of Toyota hasn't told you that software updates in the future will allow your Prius to drive autonomously. There are not a million videos on Youtube of people in their Prius with their hands in the air playing Jenga. Your Prius has assistance features called dynamic cruise control, automatic emergency braking, and a lane wander alert. Tools to help you drive and help prevent some accidents. NOT something called Autopilot
     
  6. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    And you apparently have had an obsession to keep reminding everyone of your unfounded opinion every day, for something like 9 or more years now, including your serial EV bashing on TheEEStory forum.

    It's amazing that you seem to find value at repeating your fact-free opinions on a daily basis for so many years.

     
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  8. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    If a car cannot stop before hitting a stationary object because it is going above a certain speed then surely it is going too fast. In fog, when I cannot see ahead I slow down until I can stop if encounter a stationary vehicle.

    Surely if you are claiming a 'smart' system it should be capable of simple commonsense behaviour like this. Allowing a vehicle on autopilot to whizz along at speeds where it can't avoid a collision with a stationary firetruck seems to me - to put it mildly - criminally irresponsible.
     
  9. Yes.
    That's good, common sense driving, yes.
    I wouldn't use Autopilot in heavy fog. Or rain, for that matter. I won't even use cruise control in the rain.

    Autopilot is smart, but it's not meant to replace the driver (for the dozenth time). If you have Autopilot engaged and you're looking at you're phone, and leaving the steering and speed modulation to the car, that's negligent behaviour.

    Basically, that's like putting your car on cruise control and hanging your feet out the window. And if you have your feet out the window on cruise control and suddenly crest a hill and find traffic completely stopped and you rear end them, it's not the car's fault. Same thing with Autopilot.
     
  10. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    It is supposed to avoid collisions. If it can't do it at speed it needs to slow down until it can.
    If it can't do that it's dangerous.
     

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