Are there Level 1 EVSE's that are faster than the OEM one?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by ozy, Jan 5, 2019.

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  1. ozy

    ozy Active Member

    Yes, this is exactly what the electrician suggested. I have a lot of breakers dedicated to "lights" in various parts of the house. He told me that if I were to replace all of the bulbs with LEDs then I could put all of those lights on one breaker (or two) instead of 4. In this way he could clear up some room in the panel to install a new 40 amp breaker for the evse. He will go with 6 gauge wire, run it up into the attic, across the attic and then down into the garage. I have not received a quote yet but the last person who gave me a $3200 estimate told me that he would have to replace the panel entirely. Hopefully, this is now much easier and the quote should be substantially less.
     
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  3. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    Did you check into your local electric utility company, do they offer any rebates for adding an outlet?
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Active Member

    I realize that I don't know what I am looking at nearly as well as many of you....however...as I count up the amperage on the breakers I am counting way more than 100. Am I reading that wrong?
    This is a townhome so yes.....builders definitely pinching pennies.
    A 20 amp 240 circuit would be more than enough for my needs. Anything that charges the Clarity in less than 6 hours is what I am looking for. I live in California and if you charge between midnight and 6am they charge 9 cents a kwh. If you charge outside of that window they charge several million dollars a kwh. You know....all that free renewable energy out here.
     
  5. Total panel load calculations are not based on adding the max load on each branch circuit since we anticipate that all are not running at capacity at the same time. There's a load calculation formula that electricians use to size the panel. See the dwelling units section of the NEC http://sites.ieee.org/icps-ehe/files/2015/11/13-9-NFPA-70_-National-Electrical-Code-NEC-Article-220.pdf (although if you google, I'm sure you can find a plain english version).

    That said, for the subpanel discussion a page of so back, the electrician will need to see if the 80amp subpanel has a sufficient supply given the other loads on it.
     
  6. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Yeah that’s not how it works. If I add all the numbers up on my home that has 200 amp service and 3 panels I get a number somewhere in the 1500 range. But I still only have 200 amp service overall.

    Somewhere in your building is a main breaker/master shutoff for all power to the home. Might be a smaller box somewhere outside? Not sure how they usually do this in townhomes as I see no main breaker in your box. But one exists somewhere. If you can find it and read it, whatever that breaker is rated for is what you have overall, and I’ll speculate it’s 100 amps.

    The good news is your 20 amp goal is realistic and would be very unlikely to tax your system. Get it done. Just if someday you get a Tesla or other full BEV and want a 50 amp charger, it might not be feasible without first doing a full service upgrade to your home.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  8. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    This sounds very promising...I like the plan, and so will you after it’s done and paid for. Hopefully his price is in line so you can do this.
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Active Member

    They do not although there are rumors they might....at some point.....in the near or distant future.....
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Active Member

    I've been thinking about that because I originally wanted a Tesla model 3 but then I repented and went with the Clarity which I regret not for 1 second.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Active Member

    Found it....the Panel is rated for 125 amps. Should be good to go......
     

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  13. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    No! That is likewise not the answer.

    Just because the panel is rated for 125 amps does not mean it has 125 amp service feeding it. Maybe. More likely it is 100. But it could even be as low as 60 for all we know. I once lived in a home wih 60 amp service from the utility. And I currently own a 125 amp sub panel IDENTICAL to yours which I installed in my basement remodel....but it only has 50 amp breaker service feeding it, with 8 gauge THHN. That is all my basement needs but I could never put a car charger on that panel in my home without first upgrading the service to it. You might be in a similar situation as you still do not know your capacity.

    I mentioned earlier that somewhere is a breaker protecting the wiring that enters your panel. The rating of this breaker is what you seek. Alternately the wire gauge of the main wire coming into your panel will give a strong clue if you can determine the wire gauge. You would be wise to ask these questions of an electrician before proceeding...or st least a maintenance person for your HOA if here is one? Someone who knows how your your townhomes are wired.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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  14. ozy

    ozy Active Member

    I just re-read some of the earlier posts and realized that I may have misunderstood something. At one point you (or someone else) suggested the simple solution of not re-wiring anything at all, but using the existing 12 gauge wire for a 240V receptacle. This is contingent on somehow figuring out how to squeeze the correct breaker into the panel. I think I can accomplish this by combining some of the breakers that are purely dedicated to lights ie: if I use LED's I don't need a whole bunch of seperate breakers just for lights. So this may be a good solution. However, for some reason it was mentioned that I would need to physically remove all of the other circuits in the garage for this to work. I'm not sure I understand why this is the case. Couldn't the wiring simply be left in there, but have the outlets covered over with some kind of plate or tape? Is there an actual reason to physically remove all of the other circuits other than not overloading the system? I know that we concluded on a previous discussion that if one has a 120V 20amp circuit connected to a few 15 amp receptacles then it would not be such a major deal to replace one receptacle with a 20amp and simply tape over all of the others (or somehow disable them). Does this calculus somehow change with a 240V receptacle connected to one 20amp circuit?
     
  15. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    In original scenario, if tape falls off, or someone removes it and plugs a 120v amp device into an outlet by accident not knowing it shouldn’t be used because it’s overloaded by a running 120v car charger, a breaker harmlessly trips. End of story.

    Now do the same with your proposed scenario and someone accidentally plugs a 120 device into a 240v outlet (if you don’t physically disconnect each outlet all your 120v outlets will no longer have a live and neutral, they will have 2 hots and you’ll have a garage full of 240v outlets that will only accept 120v devices). To be blunt I’m not sure exactly what will happen, but no doubt the 120v device will be destroyed, a fire could possibly ensue, and an electrocution if the unwitting person could possibly occur.

    Wire your home and any charger properly please.
     
  16. MrFixit

    MrFixit Well-Known Member

    I agree completely... If you wound up with 240V being distributed to a string of 120V receptacles (even if they have tape on them) that is very bad ! It may have been 'OK' with the 20A, 120V case, but NOT if you switch to 240V.

    Not to worry however... You just need a more concrete way to disable them than tape. I would think removing the other receptacles, putting wire nuts on the wire ends, and installing a blank cover plate would be fine. If you wanted to go an extra step, I would cover the loose white wires with black tape (signifying that they have been re-purposed as 240V wires) might be wise.
     
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  17. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    Hmmm.....it’s hard to make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Someday, someone would come along, remove the box cover, find the wire with nuts on them and say “Look at this, the wire is all here right where we need an outlet and no one finished this job. Hand me my screwdriver and a 120V outlet.”

    I’m just not a fan of any work-around, ad hoc wiring.
     
  18. ozy

    ozy Active Member

    So, after interviewing my 4th electrician I got a quote of $1200 (instead of the $3300 last quote) to install a 40amp 240V receptacle. The guy will run 6 gage wire from my electrical subpanel in my laundry room, up into the attic, down again through a small closet, and down into the garage. He will be installing a small box near the subpanel and suggested using metal conduit into the closet and down into the garage so that no patching work of any kind will have to be done. He noticed that I had several breakers dedicated to "lights" and suggested that some of these were superfluous and could be combined. He also said that, in the future, if we get a BEV car in that garage I will be able to use this new installation to charge it. Incidentally, he offered me a rate of $400 if I wanted to go with craze1cars original suggestion of installing a 240V 16amp system directly on the existing 12 gauge wire and physically capping off and plating all the other outlets. I figured that for $800 I would be getting a much faster charge and future proofing myself for other cars. I also don't have the inconvenience of losing all my other outlets.

    By the way, IMHO, I think the only reason why I got this "reasonable" quote after 3 predatory quotes is because I learned enough from this forum to pretend I knew what I was talking about. I pretty much told him exactly what I wanted. Thanks to everyone for the great advice.

    P.S: Anyone suggest which level 2 32 amp charger I should get?
     
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  19. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Glad you got a very reasonable quote. I too have saved a lot of money from the accumulated wisdom on this forum.

    If you want an EVSE that has WiFi and lets you track your kW and costs through an app, I would recommend the Charge Point Home. Mine has been bulletproof and their customer and tech service has been excellent. It’s also the most minimalist and best looking design, but to me just taking up less space and including cord and handle storage was a plus. It’s the only Energy Star rated EVSE besides the JuiceBox. I went with the CP last year because I read a lot of negative reviews on the JB, however a lot of posters here like it so it looks like they fixed their QC problems. So either of these would be a good high end choice with monitoring capability. Any other of the name brands (Siemens, Bosch, Aerovironment, etc) have less expensive models with no monitoring. Personally, I would stay away from the cheaper Chinese knockoffs. It’s just not worth it to me to try to save $ when it’s dealing with electricity while my family is asleep. I’ll stick to UL listed. YMMV.

    Also, make sure to measure and see if you need a longer cord. Many are available with longer cords for just a little more. And check your WiFi strength in the garage if you go that route.
    Level 2 charging with preconditioning is the bomb!

    PS: One thing I really like about the Charge Point is that it has a soft glowing indicator around where the handle stores that changes color and gently pulses to let me see it’s status. It’s much easier to see than a little LED. It’s very comforting to pull in the garage and see it pulsing green so I know it’s ready to go. I also find it easier to schedule than using the car scheduler and over ridding a schedule is as simple as plugging and unplugging within 3 sec.
     
  20. Chuck

    Chuck Member

    4 years ago there were not a ton of choices and Chevy was having a good rebate on Bosch PowerMax 30amp level 2's. Been perfect but has no WiFi or anything, charges at a full 7.2kw. Being newbes we had a chance to get a 2nd one with a second Chevy and decided to get it as a backup in case the first one failed, we didn't know at the time they are pretty dependable. The 2nd one is still sitting it it's box. I have toyed with attaching a cord to be able to plug it into a 240 outlet but never saw it was useful for us. I should probably sell it.
     
  21. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Ozy that’s a good price and a solid plan. Glad it’s coming to resolution. I bought an inexpensive Mustart 32 amp charger that I got off Amazon for less than $400. It’s been great I have no complaints. A basic no frills charger.
     
  22. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    Good work, Ozy. Glad it is coming together for you.

    And I couldn't agree more that this forum is amazingly valuable. But it is also dangerous. I just ordered a L2 charger. I went with the Juicebox; I think either it or the CharePoint are good choices. I don't really NEED a L2 charger based on my driving habits; charging the car overnight with the L1 charger is logically just fine for me. But I like the idea of pre-conditioning that actually works, and what the hell - after spending that much money on a car, why skimp and deprive yourself of one of the benefits?

    PS: I'm the guy who bought the house from the welder, so the outlet to plug into is not an issue for me.
     
  23. ozy

    ozy Active Member

    I'm leaning towards the Siemens Versicharge. I did a lot of research on these various chargers and concluded that Juicebox 40 pro has the advantage of some higher amperage for future proofing down the road but a lot of people seemed to run into wifi connectivity issues with it. Complaints were rampant both on this forum as well as the Bolt and leaf forums. I guess if you don't intend to use the wifi features this will be a non-issue. Alternatively you could be lucky, have a strong wifi reception in the garage and never experience those issues. Personally, I like the Siemens because it's no frills, nothing to go wrong, no wifi and it's sold at Costco who will stand by it even if it breaks 2 years later.
     

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