Honda and Toyota really resisting EV's...why?

Discussion in 'General' started by miatadan, May 13, 2021.

To remove this ad click here.

  1. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    We know 1 in 5 EV owners switched back to gas powered cars. But I don't know the answer to your question.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    turtleturtle likes this.
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    There were so many gutless, compliance vehicles, small wonder people left them:
    [​IMG]
    Sillyness compounded.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. I leased an Electric Smart for three years and it was a fantastic car. Could charge on a 120 overnight and have nearly 100 miles. Heated leather seats and steering wheel, full glass roof with a sliding shade, an incredible turn radius, just a beast in an urban environment. Also, it was a blast to drive. Mater of fact, mine was the same color you posted. Miss that little bugger.
     
    turtleturtle and bwilson4web like this.
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I'm glad you liked it but the limited charging and range meant it was like so many, a niche vehicle.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. I charged on a 120 but it had level 2, J-1772 port as well. Under three hours fully charged. The Euro version may have had CCS. Definitely a niche vehicle or a great second car. By the way, it had a surprisingly useful boot too.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I'm glad you liked it and if was a gateway vehicle to something more capable, it did good. But the limited charging and range meant it like many compliance vehicles were a niche in 2014:
    upload_2021-6-7_2-34-30.png
    • short, urban range
    • little or no fast DC charging (before diesel fraud)
    Not shown, our BMW i3-REx or the SmartForTwo. The BMW i3-REx was our gateway to a 2017 Std Rng Plus Model 3. So when I see articles like: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132102_study-1-in-5-ev-owners-go-back-to-gasoline-and-home-charging-is-a-big-issue, I see it as the short range, limited charging, compliance vehicles being properly retired or turned over as used vehicles to their next owners.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
  9. Yes, definitely. Though I would use the word niche over compliance. The gasoline version of the Smart was also a niche vehicle. Not a car for the masses, either the gasoline version or the electric version. It had a specific mission, as an urban runabout, not a long haul family sedan. We seriously debated buying out our lease and keeping it we loved it so much.

    It was a product of it's time for certain.
     
  10. miatadan

    miatadan Active Member Subscriber

    On another thread Honda Clarity cancelled, which is sad because it was one of the better PHEV vehicle’s.
    Shows that Honda as of now no decent electric cars.

    Maybe we be lucky that Toyota will have more PHEV’s in future, not just RAV4 Prime, Prius Prime….




    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
     
  11. Harvey

    Harvey Member

    toyota now trying to produce a hydrogen piston engine.
    they're going backwards. or maybe it's just to keep piston engines in racing classes.
    they can skate on the hybrid crowd for maybe the next decade.
    but unless hydrogen makes a serious change in cost and availability, never mind the danger of the extreme high storage pressures to acheive any energy density, plug in battery vehicles are the cheap easy fuel option.
    major portion of those cars never needing to drive anywhere for energy.
    just plug in at home.
    hydrogen won't take off til it's piped to your home probably as a replacement for nat gas.
    electricity is everywhere already.
     
    miatadan likes this.
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    That's not a bad thing. EVs will never replace the driving experience for gas car enthusiasts. Hydrogen piston engines likely could fill that gap. But realisticly Ethanol is far cheaper and far easier to achieve.


    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
     
  14. Dr. Kris

    Dr. Kris New Member

    Honda and Toyota are just being pragmatic which is kinda what they've always been known to do. If you want to have a large impact on the environment and electrification technology as a whole, it makes a lot more sense to make and sell 10 hybrid cars rather than use all of those batteries to make and sell 1 EV. In addition, in most states in the US its more environmentally friendly to drive, say a Toyota Corolla Hybrid, than it is a Tesla Model 3.

    They also both know fuel cell technology is the end game. Granted, EV's will always have a share of the market from now on but it makes more sense in the long term to invest more of your resources developing FC technology rather than produce a bunch of EV's with slim to negative profit margins and supply chain issues.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    We will have to agree to disagree:
    • "it makes a lot more sense to make and sell 10 hybrid cars rather than use all of those batteries to make and sell 1 EV." - Between 2005-2019, we own Prius hybrids including the Prius Prime PHEV which we traded in for a Tesla Model 3. Although solid 52-57 MPG vehicles, they had hundreds of more moving parts than our Model 3. Moving parts wear and require maintenance compared to the Model 3 that has no oil changes, PVC valve, air filter and these moving parts: (1) rotor; (2) fixed step-down gear, and; (3) differential.
    • "In addition, in most states in the US its more environmentally friendly to drive, say a Toyota Corolla Hybrid, than it is a Tesla Model 3" - My source: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-climate-yes-heres-why/ has this map: [​IMG]
    • "They also both know fuel cell technology is the end game." - California is running that experiment and we're seeing: (1) ~3x cost per mile of hydrogen fuel cells over battery electric, and; (2) requires substantial government subsidies. BTW, Tesla funds their own SuperCharger network supporting their EV cars. When Toyota and Honda begin installing hydrogen fueling stations at their dealers, we will both be amazed. In contrast, EV sellers have and continue to install charging stations at their dealers.
    The physics of fuel cell vehicles today looks to be impractical both physics, chemistry, and economics. Regardless, I recommend fuel cell advocates buy/lease their own . . . put their money and time into what they advocate. I did with my Model 3.

    Bob Wilson
     
    miatadan, brulaz and Clamps like this.
  16. Harvey

    Harvey Member

    hydrogen isn't gping anywhere until they can make it cheaper/cleaner than with nat gas.
    the high pressures and cold temps needed to store it and cost will keep it as a novelty for some time.
    maybe in 20 years when the gas industry starts pipping hydrogen to your house.
    cheap enough, you can run fuel cells in your house instead of just a furnace for heat.
    only way they are going to save their infrastructure from being abandoned as we move to electric.
    electricity is in every home already.
    go nowhere to charge for most people.
    most plug in at home.
    hydrogen won't provide that for years, or maybe ever.
    electricity you can ,make yourself even.
     
    miatadan likes this.
  17. Toyota defying the haters with their Q2 EV sales (PHEV). They are capturing many of the on-the-fence EV buyers who are not yet quite ready for a full blown BEV. The new RAV4 PHEV is certainly a big hit. Many of these will likely be converted to Toyota's new BEVs coming out in the next couple years, which are sure to have a major impact in that market.
    https://insideevs.com/news/517755/us-toyota-plugin-sales-2021q2/

    If you look at Toyota's strategy over the years (going back to the early Prius), hard to fault them for reading the market, and producing cars that buyers want. And unlike many of the current BEV makers, Toyota has a solid reputation for quality and reliability, which no doubt will give many potential new buyers a lot of confidence.
     
    miatadan likes this.
  18. miatadan

    miatadan Active Member Subscriber

    What you stated RP " If you look at Toyota's strategy over the years (going back to the early Prius), hard to fault them for reading the market, and producing cars that buyers want. And unlike many of the current BEV makers, Toyota has a solid reputation for quality and reliability, which no doubt will give many potential new buyers a lot of confidence. " is what I posted this thread.

    Also the 2022 Toyota Prime base model is only $35726 including freight, delivery, air conditioning charge/fee which is approx. $8000 less than the other EV's that just come under the $44999 limit to get the Canadian EV Federal rebate.

    In some ways for those who can not charge level 2 at home and living in apartments PHEV's can be good option.

    Just recently on the Canadian Chevrolet build site, the 2022 Bolt EV sells for $36169 including freight delivery, air conditioning fee. Most likely the least expensive EV available in Canada now.

    Dan
     
  19. Yes, the Bolt is a good deal, if you can live with some lacking features. Good range, though. I think it is a good looker, too, kind of cute.
     
  20. miatadan

    miatadan Active Member Subscriber

    Some stuff standard on 2022 Bolt
    - Wireless ApplyCarPlay, Wireless AndroidAuto
    - Wifi hotspot
    - heated front seats ( 8 way power drivers )
    - heated steering wheel
    - 2 way power lumber
    - 2 drive mode Normal and Sport
    - One pedal driving button
    - remote precondition cabin
    - all LED lighting exterior and interior
    - latest safety features including blindspot monitoring , lane keep assist, rear cross traffic alert etc

    Dan
     
  21. It doesn't have ACC (adaptive cruise control), unless the newest MYs now do. I wouldn't buy a car without that. But I know some don't care. Still a good BEV choice for the price..., just not for me.
     
  22. miatadan

    miatadan Active Member Subscriber

    Optional package has the adaptive cruise control, which if I chose this, I would order /2LT pkg and Red for colour
     
  23. Yes, I like the red ones I have seen on the road and at charging stations.
     

Share This Page