Was the battery ever charged while sitting on the lot?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Sailorman, Dec 11, 2019.

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  1. Sailorman

    Sailorman New Member

    I just purchased a 2019 Clarity Plugin Hybrid, and It just dawned on me I did not check the date of manufacture. May have been on the lot for a long time.

    I know it is not good for the battery to get below 20 or 30%, wonder if the dealer had been keeping it charged up? Anyway to know? Does the car keep a log?

    The last 6 digits of the VIN are 006252, anyone have an idea what the date of manufacture is based on the VIN?

    I will not be picking it up for a couple of more days, had to wait from last Wednesday for funds to transfer to an account that a check could be written from, now another 3 days or so before we can pick it up. Now I am getting a bit concerned about the condition of the battery. It is not buyers remorse, just I feel like a dunce not thinking of this downside of buying a plugin Hybrid from a dealer. I have been following Tesla, when new those pretty much come direct from the factory. Makes me wonder about the folks still buying 2018's left on some lots.

    I am pretty sure I read that Honda maintains a good buffer high and low, am I correct? but if it just sits for months? It had only about 15 miles on it before my test drive, so if it came fully charged to the dealership, how long would it take to drain beyond the lower buffered limit?

    It was on the Charger prior to my arrival for the test drive, and was fully charged, so was not able to see what state it was in prior to that charging session.







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  3. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    I would guess manufacture date at 03-2019, but you can tell for sure by looking at the manufacturer's sticker inside the driver door (on the A-pillar). It is black with a bar code on it. Top right hand should have something like 03/'19 on it... You can ask them to run a capacity test on the battery and give you the results. It is on the pre-delivery pdf checklist of stuff they are supposed to do before you get the car (although pretty much all dealers will say they've never heard of it). I think the test should yield about 55.1 Ah (hopefully someone here will chime in). I can't remember anyone ever reporting a new car that showed problems with the test (or otherwise) after sitting on the lot. I'd ask for the test results, but I wouldn't be worried about it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  4. DaleL

    DaleL Active Member

    The dealer charged it before your test drive. That says a lot about the dealer. They knew that the way to sell a Clarity is to have the customer drive it with a fully charged battery.

    I once bought a Nissan van which had sat on the dealer's lot through a very hot summer. The van had apparently not been moved for months. All four tires were permanently flat spotted. I negotiated a deal before buying and the dealer replaced all four tires once it was apparent that the flat spotting wasn't going away.

    I think your Clarity is fine.
     
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  5. jorgie393

    jorgie393 Well-Known Member

    Someone more knowledgeable will probably chime in with details but I want to second the bit about the battery capacity test, and ask for a copy. And to clarify-it is on the CLARITY-SPECIFIC pre-delivery checklist. (some dealers produce a generic checklist which is missing these items).

    If you search this forum for battery capacity test, or clarity pre-delivery checklist, you’ll probably find information on both.

    I also don’t recall anyone actually having any problems yet on this front, but you will want to feel comfortable that you didn’t miss anything.




    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
     
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  6. Groves Cooke

    Groves Cooke Active Member

    The battery is guaranteed by Honda for 10 years or 100,000 miles. I would rest easy on this. I bought my 2018 Clarity in Sept 2018 and it was not charged when I bought it. I don't know how long it sat uncharged on the lot. I bought it before I found this and other Clarity forums, The battery has been fine for the first 21,000 miles. I get 50-55 miles of EV during the summer and it drops (like everyone else) into the high 30's to low 40's in the winter.
     
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  8. Our VIN precedes yours by more than 2500. It was manufactured 5/19.

    Lithium batteries will hold a charge for months. They can also be cycled thousands of times from 100% to 0% to 100% SOC.

    We do know that it was charged at least once prior to your test drive. I would not worry about the condition of the Lithium batteries.
     
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  9. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    I’ve used the build date on the driver’s door frame sticker as a a negotiating point. Dealers don’t like cars sitting in inventory very long. It’s also on the Carfax for used cars.
     
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  10. Sailorman

    Sailorman New Member

    Thanks to all who replied, I woke up early and called Honda headquarters, and found that the car was built 10 11 19, So it just arrived not to long ago at the dealership. So I can relax on that point. Learned some thing from you all, thanks, will have the dealership test for battery capacity when they prep it.
     
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  11. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    Sorry I guessed so badly on my guess for the manufacture date. I tried to use mine (a 2018 model with a March build date as a guide).
     
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  13. vicw

    vicw Active Member

    I just checked my Warranty Manual again after seeing your post. The High Voltage Battery Warranty is actually for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. I wish it were actually 10 years.
     
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  14. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    Don't they increase it to 10 years in California? Or am I imagining that?
     
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  15. DucRider

    DucRider Well-Known Member

    Depends on where you bought/registered it. In Section 177 States, it will be 10 years/150K miles, otherwise the Federally mandated 8 yr/100K mile warranty will apply.
     
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  16. vicw

    vicw Active Member

    That's an interesting twist. Sadly, North Carolina, where I live, is not among the 13 Section 177 states.
     
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  17. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    While it’s true that Li-ion batteries will maintain a significant charge over several months, I’ll have to respectfully disagree with you over the 1,000s of charges from 0 to 100% SOC.

    One of the quickest ways to ruin a Li/ion battery is to repeatedly fully charge and completely discharge it. This is the reason that every battery management system for Li-ion batteries will never allow the user access to the full capacity. For example, no one on this forum has been able to get more than 14.1 to 14.4 kWhs into the Clarity battery pack despite it having a total capacity of 17 kWhs. The BMS will always keep a buffer at the top and bottom of the SOC (more so at the bottom). If it didn’t, there would be no way it would retain the warranted 36.6 Ah (~67% of total capacity) at 8 or 10 years and 100,000 miles. Fortunately Honda gave us an excellent BMS and battery cooling system.

    However, if a Clarity sat on the lot long enough to deplete to 0% SOC and then just sat there long enough, the battery definitely was adversely affected. It will still charge up and be “good”, but it probably lost some small part of its capacity. Think of it as premature aging. You would only know that for sure by having the Battery Capacity Test run. It’s nominally 55 Ah (somewhat dependent on temperature). I required that test be done at purchase to be sure I was getting the full capacity I was paying for.
    BTW, this also explains why your phone battery won’t last 10 years, because people often run it down to empty or next to nothing and charge it back up to 100%.
     
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  18. bpratt

    bpratt Active Member

    There is a lot of very good information about Li/ion batteries at this site:
    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

    A Li/ion battery is considered 100% charged at 4.2 volts per cell and 0% charged at 3.0 volts per cell. At 3.0 volts per cell about 95% of the batteries capacity has been used and if allowed to fully discharge, the battery can no longer be charged. If charged to 4.2 volts (which Honda Clarity does not do) the life of the battery is reduced to about 300 - 500 charge cycles. Any charging above 4.2 volts can cause the battery to explode or catch on fire.
     
  19. Clarity Dave

    Clarity Dave Member

    Washington state has the same warranty extensions as California. So the battery is covered for 10 years / 150,000 miles and a number of other parts are covered for 15 years / 150,000 miles (listed on pages 40-42 of the warranty, contained on a CDrom you should receive with the car).
     
  20. Sorry Ken, there’s just too much information available from companies such as Battle Born, Renogy and Victron, to name a few, that have tested their batteries to 100-0-100 SOC for 3000-5000 cycles while still maintaining 80% or more of their original capacity.

     
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  21. The BMS as programmed from the factory maintains a very conservative “buffer” on both top and bottom end. Should the need arise, the charging protocol could be modified to allow more access to the batteries available capacity.

    It is doubtful, in my opinion, that we will ever see the capacity reduced below 67% in 10 years or 150,000 miles. If it happens, Honda will first attempt to change the charging protocol to increase capacity to 68% or more and thereby eliminate a warranty claim.
     
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  22. Sailorman

    Sailorman New Member

    Thanks for all the info everyone. As much as I have read over the last couple of years on electric car websites, I forget a lot of details. Glad to know in Washington State I will have the 15 yr battery system / catalytic exhaust system warranty. I can forget about the miles, would not get close to even 100k in 15 years. I would like to know more about the Battery management system, I imagine there is a special place on this forum for that?

    Also, I would like to discuss the new taxes our legislature came up with this summer, where is the best place to discuss this? I will post the following there as well: This summer they passed a law to tax plug in vehicles, I will pay 150 each year, no matter how much or how little I drive, and I drive not so much!

    I think electric cars should pay road tax, though I think that we should pay for the miles we drive, or just a tax on how much electricity is used. Electric cars can keep track of miles or electricity used and that could be uploaded to the state licensing authority.

    Now here is the really insane law, a house member from Tacoma got this passed, a 75 dollar a year tax on all Hybrids, because, they do not use as much gas, thus less gas tax !!! We really need to change the way taxes are collected for vehicle use not only in my state but all the states. Wait till all the Prius and other hybrid owners find out, they will start another tax revolt!!
     
  23. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    There are multiple topics about such taxes here on the forum...been discussed several times. Yes most states now have a road tax on EVs of some sort to make up for the lost gas taxes

    One of many stories with map of how each state handles it:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/electric-car-state-fees-gas-tax-cost/

    I, for one, don’t object to the EV surcharges. As usual I’m probably in the minority. Charging by the mile would be great if it was realistically measurable, and it is with technology, if we are willing to get into more invasion of individual privacy which is yet another can of worms...

    Like everything else there are no good ways to please everyone so it will morph and change with time. In the meantime I pay my annual fee for my PHEV to my BMV with no complaints.
     
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