Tough day for EVs and PHEVs in Alabama...

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Robert_Alabama, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. RickSE

    RickSE Active Member

    I report my end of year mileage to my insurance company every year when I renew my mandatory automobile liability insurance. It probably wouldn’t be all that hard to just add a road tax to my bill and the insurance company can just send it in for me. Yes, the calculations are all one year in arrears, but that’s the closest thing to a use tax I can see.
     
    Mariner91 likes this.
  2. rodeknyt

    rodeknyt Active Member

    Already happened in 2017. Big (and incrementally ongoing) raise in gas taxes and, starting with the 2020 model year, an extra $100 a year for green cars. The only thing that isn't clear is if that extra $100 will only be levied on model year 2020 cars or all of them beginning in the 2020 model year.
     
  3. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-electric-car-charge-fee.html?AMP

    This practice is common in many states. See link above. Map has not yet been updated for AL but all of it’s surrounding states have already implemented something similar, so I see no reason to be surprised by it. As a PHEV owner in Indiana, I pay a $150/year surcharge to get my license plates, which gas vehicles do not pay. This is because I pay significantly less gas tax than everyone else, and the roads still need to be built, repaired, and maintained. I’m happy to contribute to that fund.

    I support the practice in the interim, and I see no reason to complain about the surcharge. Some day when EVs are more the norm, tax structures will change and may equalize somehow. I see the current patch as fairly reasonable and simple, and I’m good with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  4. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  5. Walt R

    Walt R Active Member

    One possible solution is staring us right in the face - fund it the same way the majority of other government is funded, through income taxes. We all "use" the roads to get our goods and packages delivered, in addition to our personal transport. Another, more radical idea would be to only tax commercial vehicles since their greater weight does the majority of the damage to the roads.

    I still think gasoline and diesel should be taxed as relates to their environmental impact. Electricity is effectively already taxed for environmental impact through the required emissions equipment included in the cost of generation.

    As someone who crosses state lines every day, I am not in favor of any mileage tax paid to a state due to the potential double-taxation (pay for miles not driven in the state) or non-taxation (for those that don't live in the state and don't have a mileage tax at home).
     
    Domenick likes this.
  6. Mariner91

    Mariner91 Member

    That's actually what I was thinking off; I know there's a lot of ways that people can lie on this, but similar to how the insurance works, if something happens and they find out you lied, you're screwed lol

    The only other thing I can think of is when we're required to do smog check, but not sure if PHEVs will ever have those lol
     
  7. aldaris1234

    aldaris1234 New Member

    As a fellow Indiana Clarity owner I can say our fee is actually only $50 and not $150 as we meet the legal definition of Hybrid and not Electric.

    upload_2019-3-13_19-57-32.png

     
  8. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm. My memory may be off. I could have sworn I paid $150. Will check sometime. Thanks!
     
  9. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the update. I thought the registration was pretty high, but didn't see any reference to this in the registration bill for the Clarity.
     
  10. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    By building on Alabama’s logic their electric grid can be paid for by a special tax to gasoline cars.
     
  11. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    I don't understand that logic... Aren't we are talking about road taxes, not building gas stations...
     
  12. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    I think @The Gadgeteer meant something like:
    Roads = electrical grid
    Carries cars vs carries electricity
    That’s infrastructure

    Or at least that’s how I took it.
     
    The Gadgeteer likes this.
  13. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    Seems like pretty convoluted logic... Hope that is not the best defense that EV's have.

    More logical for me is:
    Roads = Roads (fuel tax is used for roads)
    Petroleum pipelines = Electrical grid - (no fuel tax implications)
    Gas stations = Charging stations - (no fuel tax implications)

    The US network of gas stations is also 'infrastructure', even though it is privately owned.

    The US interstate system, including gas stations, restaurants, and hotels, makes us one of the most mobile populations in the world.

    The lack of charging stations is a hiccup in EV infrastructure. There are also questions when the current electrical grid capacity will limit the increased demand of converting transportation to EV's
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  14. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    Road infrastructure taxes should be based on A) weight and B) miles/yr the vehicle travels. Report mileage at annual state inspection intervals. Weight would be the primary factor with some sort of sliding scale for mileage because a city bus that only travels 5k miles per year does a whole lot more damage than a motorcycle that travels 15k/yr.
     
  15. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Most states don’t have annual inspection requirements. So now who pays for that new program?

    Looking forward, as more trucks begin electrifying, which states get the income from OTR trucks, which travel all over the country?

    Until every car reports wirelessly via wifi or cell to the state (and big brother fears will be unlikely to allow this to happen easily), charging per mile will be nearly impossible...logistics are just too difficult.
     
  16. aldaris1234

    aldaris1234 New Member

    Being a tax professional I feel the need to chip in. When it comes to OTR trucking, tax revenues are already split across states of operations based upon the International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fuel_Tax_Agreement

     
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  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Active Member

    A quick check shows that most (37) states have some sort of inspection whether its for safety or emissions or both. With the exception of Florida, all the large automotive states fall under that umbrella so it wouldn't require a great transformation to adopt nationwide.
     
  18. Olimpia

    Olimpia Member

    I'm up for renewing my registration in May. My state does not have this fee in place yet so I might opt for the 2 year renewal and see if I come up on top lol
     
  19. Al-clarity

    Al-clarity New Member

    Is there a reason why road maintenance is not funded by yearly fed or state budget?
     
  20. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    In NJ we already have PHEVs pay tolls, gasoline taxes, taxes on the electricity to charge, and $525 additional sales tax based on the pre-rebate price. I just do not think we need another tax on PHEVs. It is hard enough to get people to understand and buy these cars. Adding a tax will go a long way to discourage moving away from fossil fuels. PHEVs are a great way for people to go mostly electric.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
    Daniel M W and Walt R like this.

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