Ontario owners: how long does it take to receive the government rebate?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by bigbug, May 24, 2018.

  1. Omgswify

    Omgswify Member

    It’s really unfortunate a lot of EV owners were denied, despite following all the rules and making the deadlines. I am more than confident that everyone would get a rebate if they contact their car manufacturers head office. I’m sure the government would prefer to avoid a lawsuit, such as the one brought on by Tesla last year.
  2. Kranberry

    Kranberry Member

    I do feel for people and I hope that they do get their rebates, however, it was mentioned back in August (although already to late for the July 16th deadline) where they could have started the process of talking to the dealer. See post quoted below talking about it.

    After I saw that message I personally emailed my dealer and got written confirmation that they sent out my VIN and vehicle information to MTO. They did confirm back in email back in August. I would have used that as proof that I had done my due diligence and if denied it would have fallen on my dealer. I really do hope that everyone gets their rebate, and I do believe it is a loophole that the Ontario government used just like they tried with Tesla. I feel if you have sufficient proof that it was orderd before July 11th, 2018 then you should get your rebate. I don't see why it has to be on an approved order list. Either way, good luck to everyone and keep us posted.
    Omgswify likes this.
  3. jstephens

    jstephens Member

    I posted on the VWCanada Facebook page yesterday, the moderator acknowledged my message, and replied that they would look into it.
  4. lordplum

    lordplum New Member

    I didn't know about this forum and thread until a few days ago, so the August post that you mentioned would have not done me any good =)

    Back in July when then program cancellation was announced and before I picked up my car, I noticed the clause in the EHVIP documentation that there needed to be proof that the order was placed with the manufacturer prior to July 11. I don't recall there being any mention of an "approved order list" at that point (though documentation from October 2018 seems to have it). I did my due diligence and asked my dealership about the "proof of order" clause, and they told me not to worry since my car went into production in May (so it was obviously ordered prior to July 11) and that everything would be okay because the EHVIP program would have my VIN. I also followed up with MoF and MTO various times, asking about the status of my application, and they didn't mentioned anything, other than the pre-canned response that everyone is familiar with.

    So, you can imagine my surprise when I got the rejection notice. I don't feel like I could have done anything more in terms of due diligence. I can only hope that it gets sorted out between the dealer and the MTO, or at least made good by my dealer if the rebate doesn't go through. I definitely would not have bought my car if it wasn't for the rebate, and I was assured it would go through. We shall see how it pans out.
  5. s114

    s114 New Member

    Got the same response for my vehicle as well. This is not our fault, we could not have possibly done our due diligence with the dealer in this respect. Our application is a contract between 3 parties ultimately vetted by the MTO. If one of them doesn't comply (after the MTO notices 6 months later), it should be the MTO's duty to proceed with legal action with the dealer, not ours.

    Look at your own applications, notice the Warrant signed by the dealer at section K3. It states right there that the MTO may require the dealer to repay the incentive in full if they do not meet program requirements.
  6. Rivek_egolfowner

    Rivek_egolfowner New Member

    Received this email today from an actual person from the 'EHVIP Team'. Essentially reiterates what has been the mainstay of this thread - the darn "vehicle order lists" that most of us at the time didn't even know existed. Here's the message in full:
    Hello ____,

    Ontario cancelled the cap and trade program and as a result, on July 11, 2018 the Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Incentive Program (EHVIP) was cancelled.

    Vehicles that are registered, plated and delivered on or before July 11, 2018 are eligible for the EHVIP incentive provided all applicable EHVIP program requirements are met and the incentive application submitted within 90 days of the vehicle registration, plating and delivery.

    Vehicles that are registered, plated and delivered AFTER July 11, 2018 are eligible for EHVIP incentive provided all applicable EHVIP program requirements are met including that the vehicle must be on the ministry approved order list from dealers and manufacturers, and delivered to customers registered and plated on or before September 10, 2018 and the incentive application submitted within 90 days of the vehicle registration, plating and delivery.

    Please note that dealers were required to provide Ministry of Transportation with lists of both eligible vehicles in their inventory and orders placed with manufacturers on or before July 11, 2018 by end of day on July 16, 2018 using the Ministry provided template.

    Vehicles order lists that were submitted late i.e., AFTER July 16 deadline, are not accepted to the program. Also, vehicles that are delivered, registered and plated AFTER July 11, 2018 but NOT on the Ministry approved order list are INELIGIBLE for the EHVIP incentive.

    EHVIP Team
    I think we should try and unite and seek media attention. This EV story has been off the radar for the most part since the late summer, or at least since the Tesla decision was made. This is just not right. As EV buyers we did everything correct. We completed the forms, gathered all the documents, and filed our applications in good faith and on time. We're completely at the mercy of this vehicle order list, which I gather most had no idea existed. I certainly would have walked from my vehicle, albeit with some regret, had I know I wouldn't get the rebate. I certainly don't recall any reference to this on the MTO website last summer. It was all about the Sept 11 filing deadline, and nothing about vehicle order lists, which, as one person mentioned in a previous post was between the dealerships and the MTO. We held up our part of the bargain and we're being penalized for something out of our control.

    I'm still waiting to hear back from my dealership, who last assured me that my vehicle was on the list. But how could the EHVIP team have made, supposedly, careful review. I'm worried that my dealership had my car on the list, most definitely, but it was on a list submitted after the July 16th deadline.

    So frustrating!
    kaps08 likes this.
  7. s114

    s114 New Member

    So I am in the exact same boat, and received the exact same email from Phebe. I am interested in bringing this to the attention of the media as well.

    It sounds like there could be hundreds of us based on what I have been hearing from my dealer and others affected from different vehicle brands.
  8. Rivek_egolfowner

    Rivek_egolfowner New Member

    I just sent a message to CBC's go public and mentioned this on-going thread, and the vehicle order list deadline of July 16th, 2018 versus the EHVIP application deadline of Sep 11, 2018. I'm going to contact my local MPP, and my local newspaper. I can't sleep so I may as well use some energy writing more emails.
  9. V8Power

    V8Power Active Member

    Media could help. How about a class action lawsuit?

    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
    Leafboy and Omgswify like this.
  10. EV-Dealer

    EV-Dealer New Member

    I work at a dealership, and we've received 4 denial notices from customers. We've done what we needed to do on our end. Now we have to fight for the customer. I saw on one page that you can appeal until March 31st. Does anyone have a link or know the appeal process?
  11. Kranberry

    Kranberry Member

    Understood that people did their due diligence. I just mentioned the August post for those that missed it.

    Personally I feel that MTO is targeting the users that they deny similar to Tesla. If you have documentation proving you ordered before July, why would you need more than that? Maybe like someone said, class action or perhaps getting media involved to try to get the word out so that others in your position could throw in their voice.
  12. jstephens

    jstephens Member

    I have been in touch with a reporter at the CBC too. She was interested, I just sent all my documents and emails, and link to this thread. I have posted on the VW Canada Facebook page, they acknowledged my post, still waiting for anything concrete. I also got a response from our MPP, Stephen Crawford, Oakville and they said they would look into it. Not giving up. Can't sleep or eat either, fuelled on anger. So. Incredibly. Frustrating.
  13. jstephens

    jstephens Member

    If there was a lawyer who would be interested in this on a contingency fee, all the better. Our household is not in a cash positive position at the moment.
  14. jstephens

    jstephens Member

    We have spoken to a person named Sean (won't give out his last name) at the MTO. His number is 647.274.0356. While I don't know of a formal appeal process, he answers the phone and returns calls, though so far, not with any good news.
  15. jstephens

    jstephens Member

    Can dealers lean on TADA and manufacturers for support in this?
  16. Rivek_egolfowner

    Rivek_egolfowner New Member

    Here's the contact info for the minister of transportation Ontario - this is public information:

    Hon. Jeff Yurek | Minister | 416-327-9200 | minister.mto@ontario.ca

    I'm going to starting calling and emailing anyone and everyone I think might be interested in the story and who may be able to help. I'm just beside myself in frustration and anger. We've been cast to the curb. Other than contacting our dealerships we appear to have no mechanism of recourse as EV owners.
  17. Rivek_egolfowner

    Rivek_egolfowner New Member

    Jennifer French (Oshawa riding) is the NDP transportation and highway critic. I'm emailing her as well.
  18. s114

    s114 New Member

    I have also spoken with my MPP today, and the gentleman from the Ombudsman office who is handling my MTO complaint. So far no real answers, other than the fact that the MTO is allowing their decision to be changed based on the dealer proving that they have submitted the correct documentation, and on time.

    I think this can get real ugly if the MTO doesn't back down from their stance on this, the EHVIP application is so poorly written, it leaves both the dealers and the MTO vulnerable to further action from every single applicant who has been denied for this same reason.
  19. Albussol

    Albussol New Member

    Hello everyone. Glad I found this forum. I am in the same boat. I got the rejection email because it was not on that 'list'. I have seen proof the Nissan Leaf I purchased was ordered in March. I was told by the dealer the car was submitted on their list.

    I have reached out to Ellen Roseman(she's working on a story about it), Ontario Ombudsman, Nissan Canada and my dealer.

    They better honour rebates for cars that were ordered well before the deadline. Regardless if its on some list. A list that the Ministry wouldn't even let me access to confirm my vehicle before purchasing. This is BS.
  20. lordplum

    lordplum New Member

    Update: Got confirmation from my dealership that the order was not submitted to the Ministry by the July 16 deadline. I asked them for some more context. Was submitted at all? Did they actually got the notification of the July 16 deadline from the Ministry? Waiting for a reply.

    I took delivery of my car on July 20, 2018. If I had known about the "ministry approved order list", and about July 16 deadline for dealers to submit orders, I would have definitely asked my dealer specifically if they had submitted the order to the ministry by July 16. The answer would have been no, and I would not have taken delivery, knowing that I would not qualify for the rebate.

    I did some digging, and the the original press release for the cancellation of the EHVIP program did not have any mention of the "ministry approved order list". It only stated "Inventory that dealers have on lots or orders made by dealerships with manufacturers on or before July 11, will also be honoured for the incentive provided that the vehicle is delivered to consumers, registered, and plated by September 10".

    Source (which quoted the press release in full): https://insideevs.com/ontario-cancels-electric-car-incentive-program/
    Google search yields plenty of other sites that quoted the original press release.

    So only July 11 after seeing the press release, I asked my dealer about this "orders made by dealership with manufacturers" clause (quoting the press release), and was assured that the order was indeed made before July 11, since the vehicle was built in May (I mentioned this is another one of my posts). I told the dealer thanks for the answer and was pleased that I would definitely qualify for the rebate.

    Funny thing is that there is an updated press release on the MTO webpage (dated August 31, 2018) that all of a sudden mentions the "ministry approved order list" (but still no mention of the July 16th deadline that dealers had to submit orders by):

    "Incentives will be provided as long as the following conditions are met:
    • Eligible vehicles were delivered, registered, and plated on or before July 11th; or,
    • Eligible vehicles were on dealer lots in Ontario, or on order by dealers or by customers directly from manufacturers on or before July 11th, and delivered to customers, registered and plated on or before September 10, 2018. These vehicles must be on the ministry approved order list from dealers and manufacturers.
    • Applications must be submitted within 90 days of vehicle registration, plating and delivery."
    source (bolded words of interest): http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/electric-vehicle-incentive-program.shtml

    I briefly searched for the original July 11, 2018 press release on an official Ontario government website, but didn't have any luck.
    The rebate guide that mentions that July 16 deadline is dated dated 2018/12 (http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/...B=PROFILE&SRCH=&ENV=WWE&TIT=2096&NO=023-2096E).

    The latest rebate form (also found in link above) has no mention of a July 16 deadline.

    So, I don't believe that there was any publicly available documentation that mentioned the July 16 deadline prior to the deadline actually passing.

    I really feel that it's unfair that the MTO is standing by its July 16 deadline for dealers to submit the orders to the Ministry since:
    • Dealers may not have received the July 12 notification of the July 16 deadline (and it was not in any press release or publically available form or guide at the time, as far as I can tell)
    • Even if the dealer received it, that's only two full business days (plus however much time they had on July 12 after they received the notification) to take action (whereas we had to wait on average 6-7 months for the ministry to even look at our rebates)
    • As an individual rebate applicant that took delivery before any publicly available documentation mentioning the July 16 deadline was available, I had absolutely no way of knowing that the July 16 deadline existed, and had no way of doing my due diligence by asking the dealers if they had submitted the order by July 16 prior to deciding whether or not to purchase the car.

    s114 likes this.

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