NSX (Acura/Honda) vs Model S- no the NSX is not quicker- a shame

Discussion in 'Honda' started by 101101, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. 101101

    101101 Member

    No issue if the NSX were quicker but it simply isn't and by a good margin on the 0-60 that the S gets tested on.

    This is becoming a theme in the shill media to try to suggest that hybrids (really vanilla petrol) are competitive when they aren't. They've been using conflation on this issue to try to fool people- i.e., pitching the test as quarter mile and 0-100 as the test instead of the test which is 0-60 in the case of the S. It seems that Honda and McLaren and now Toyota are trying this bs. But hybrids are bloated fat double power trains and they keep the enslaving unnecessary war causing public sector hollowing out failure that is petrol fuel/energy in business, when nothing will suffice but the fastest permanent bankruptcy humanly possible for petrol- the bill has come due.

    Hate to see these great Japanese car companies looking captured by the hereditary wealth based petrol industry. Toyota was essential to the birth of Tesla and now look what its doing with hybrids. Sure hybrids were proof of concept for the electrics credit to Toyota for that too but this is going way way too far if its accurate. If there were two companies I'd have confidence in to produce awesome electric cars its Toyota and Honda. They may be under immense political pressure and threats- 311 etc., but the world needs their quality now.

    https://www.carthrottle.com/post/can-an-acura-nsx-beat-a-tesla-model-s-p100d-on-the-strip/
     
  2. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member



    @2000 RPM launch, Tesla got smoked.
     
    02Duck likes this.
  3. 101101

    101101 Member

    Ah no, it still did not beat the Model S time popping the clutch or not. Now they may have shill tested it. But you can see the official NSX 0-60 times are over 3 seconds. So this is just more dishonest BS. You damage your brand when you let marketing fools do this kind of stuff.
    Again no issue if it were quicker but trying to say it is when its apparently not is just beyond weak.
     
  4. PHClarity2018

    PHClarity2018 New Member

    The OP doesn't have a clue. The top speed of the NSX is significantly faster than the model S. 0-60 is meaningless.
     
    02Duck likes this.
  5. 101101

    101101 Member

    No the OP has a solid clue. The point of the arguments and the shill media bringing the S into the argument is the 0-60 for a seats seven tank family sedan that weighs almost 5000lbs out accelerating a NSX in the legal range means the NSX isn't much of a super car- so they were trying to lie. Here the other thing the OP has a huge clue about. What happens off this line at drag strips dominates because by the time the NSX could over take the S or likely even the X if I am not mistaken (have to check- X Suv and NSX might be close to evenly match 0-60) the cars are way down the track at an angle where its hard to tell who is ahead. So it looks like S wins every drag race and from the optic and beginning of the race is does. Sorry this is what has always mattered. And it takes a long time for these so called petrol super cars to overtake the family sedan- why the SP100D still holds title of fastest production car ever made. Funny thing is Tesla didn't even set out to do this initially it seems it was just an obvious potential. As for top speed, that takes for ever to get to and it doesn't matter.

    I think one thing that people don't get is Telsa will at some point be able to produce the roadster or a car like it cheaper than a car like the NSX can be produces, so way better performance, a hybrid will never match a pure electric but at a lower cost and much lower complexity and maintenance and emissions. To beat a hybrid like the NSX or even what Toyota has been talking about just put differently configured electric motors in the front and the back just like the roadster already does. Torque off the line with real motors and HP at speed with front motors.
    You're not carrying the weight of the second redundant power train nor the cost and complexity. You don't have a redundant unneeded gas take and transmission/transaxel combustion engine and all of its unneeded pumps fluid and complexity. Sorry gas cars are dead.
     
  6. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    It's kind of sad, too, because had the Tesla had a bit more charge in it, it would have been doing the smoking. The official Model S P100D 1/4 mile record is 10.766 seconds, and I've seen any number of quicker runs (on video).

    The Model S needs around 90% charge, I believe, to do its fastest runs.
     
  7. 101101

    101101 Member

    Or you can just go off the published records for actual testers and manufactures and see the Tesla is a good bit quicker at the actual stat that these test have referred to and ignore the conflation. And let us also note that apparently the Roadster doesn't have this disadvantage or have it to close the same degree- fade or high speed fade- that's the claim and there was apparently some supporting evidence.
     
  8. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member

    People don't know, Tesla needs to warm up the battery to do ludicrous mode.
     
  9. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I believe Ludicrous mode and max battery are two different functions. Also, found this video of 0 to 60 times are various states of charge that seems pertinent to this thread.
     
  10. 101101

    101101 Member

    Was looking at the top fuel site and noted a poster going on angrily over several posts claiming 0-60 never mattered and its irrelevant
    the shilling might now be trying to move the goal posts to a place where they can win. They will have to move all the posts and find they can win no where.
     
  11. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    Honda never actually made cars for the general public to be the fastest straight line car. It was always about the handling, for both the new and original NSX. Road and Track give it the Performance Car of the Year, even though it was in the middle statistically in straight line acceleration and power. If you read any of the hundreds of reviews of the original and new NSX, the handling is what people really like. The NSX has also shown a history of being as durable as any Honda, but you can take it to driving courses regularly and commutes during the work days. Honda has "fast" cars for professional racers, not to the public, but people can also tune their Hondas which many people do (some take Honda 4 cylinders to under 8 seconds in the quarter mile).

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a31275/2017-performance-car-of-the-year/

    The existing Tesla EV drivetrain won't work too well on actual driving courses, since electronics are more temperature range limited. See the Car and Driver report of their standard comparison lap time.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...torical-data-every-lap-time-every-car-feature

    The NSX is in the top 10%, but the Tesla that was tried is in the bottom section surpassed by many 4 cylinder cars. You can also check Nurburgrind and Pikes Peak hill climb times too, which are also challenged by smaller inexpensive cars.

    A Tesla holds the record for a production EV in Pikes Peak, but it's notably slower than the NSX times there, and they packed the bottom with ice for cooling. I believe a Honda powered race vehicle won the whole event that year, and their EV NSX test unit got 3rd place, the "fast" professional parts.

    https://insideevs.com/near-stock-tesla-model-s-p90d-sets-new-pikes-peak-record/
     
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  12. 101101

    101101 Member

    The existing Tesla EV drivetrain won't work too well on actual driving courses, since electronics are more temperature range limited. See the Car and Driver report of their standard comparison lap time.

    An electric has the record ad Nurburing- Next Roadster will very likely beat any streetable Honda/Acura that is not BEV at the track.

    Full EV as in BEV will simply be radically superior in evey way that matters IC including hybrid and PHEV is simply obsolete.
     
  13. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    Do you have any knowledge that Tesla does any track testing? I say this because that is a significantly different thing than some used on the public roads. The duty cycle is very heavy for a road course compared to occasional peak acceleration from time to time. A road course requires near peak acceleration coming out of each turn, so around 5-10+ times a minute. This would require a heavy duty cooling system, which from the looks of the design, it doesn't appear to support that. It would add much to the weight and space needed.

    The other thing about the NSX is that X stands for experimental, meaning that Honda used it try out new things. For example, the first NSX was the first mass production aluminum chassis vehicle and included aluminum suspension components. It was also apparently the first time a US market vehicle came with variable valve timing. The new NSX is the first vehicle to use aluminum ablation casting, which is likely to see more use in low/mid volume products. It's probably one of the first vehicles to have independent electric motors for the steering wheels. However, the main point is for the consumer vehicle to be a reliable everyday vehicle not an all out performance vehicle.

    http://wardsauto.com/technology/honda-pioneers-ablation-casting-nsx
     
  14. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    OP is correct, NSX is not quicker, but it is much faster and the price tag reflects this. The Model S has never been that quick around a track, simply a king of the drag strip. It has a fast 0-60, but it's not a sports car and it was not intended to be. The NSX was designed to be a great sports car, and it is.

    "A gift consists not in what is done or given, but in the intention of the giver or doer." - Seneca
     
    Cypress likes this.
  15. 101101

    101101 Member

    To both of the above posts. @ab13 nothing you've said is even remotely accurate, suggest you bother to keep up with the changes in BEV. Again, Nurburing record is electric. The roadster shows there's no limits on the BEV its just radically superior in every meaningful way.

    Lets talk about what the NSX really is. Engineering wise its a joke. Its a car with a dual power plant one of what is straight up obsolete.
    Its bygone era stuff. It would be worse than putting a black berry inside a Iphone X. ICE is obsolete junk now. These ICE brands will destroy themselves trying to make the equivalent of steam engines compete with mag levs.

    Spend $156K on a hybrid NSX when you can get a Tesla Roadster (even with the wait) for $46K more is a pure FOOL. If Acura wants to remain relevant in this space it will introduce meaningful technology and that is pure BEV.
     
  16. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think you're giving enough credit to the ICE. The ICE is one of the greatest inventions of all time, responsible for more historical productivity than electricity generation. It has constantly been updated, innovated, and evolved over hundreds of years. I fully agree that electric motors will prove to be better than ICEs, but right now the ICE is leaps and bounds ahead. Today's electric cars will be obsolete in 5 years, like an old PC. Meanwhile, a 1931 Bugatti Type 55 Roadster just sold for $4million dollars at auction. I don't think you're wrong, just a little premature.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  17. 101101

    101101 Member

    If you want to take a "Guns Germs and Steel" approach fine but ICE is now broken even for right side welfare. Sure the 1% efficient steam engine helped make way for where we are today, but as we know electric was there at the beginning of ICE and in a way most ICE machines have been hybrids going way back given the starter systems. But today 99% of the parts in ICE are obsolete as is 99% of the equipment and infrastructure in its supply chain. Even the balance sheets in that supply chain are obsolete. How can 66% of the assets on the books of those firms be economically and politically stranded and still have people insuring these firms let alone investing in them. Nothing worse than a petrol or ICE firm in a retirement portfolio or pension plan.
     

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