Mega Thread for Tesla Investors

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by TeslaInvestors, Sep 2, 2018.

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  1. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    His larger than life presence is a factor in the decision, something that they can relate it with. It is not the only factor or even the most important factor. The most important one is the product itself, as you have pointed out



    Thank you for not correcting my grammar this time :). As you may have understood by now, grammar is not my strong suite, so is there a technical term for this? Would this fall under the definition of a pun or is there some other term to describe it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
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  3. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    How nice to see someone using the term "Tesla skeptic" correctly, referring to the true meaning of "skeptic"... and not using that as a euphemism for a diehard Tesla basher, one who has firmly made up his mind to do everything he can to attack Tesla's reputation. A true skeptic is someone who has not made up his mind.

     
  4. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I don't know if you did it intentionally, but it came across to me as a pun, and a rather clever one. (The few times I've done that sort of thing accidentally, I've found it's best to just smile and pretend it was intentional. :) ) Anyway, there's nothing to "correct". In the context of what you wrote:

    ...with digital cameras, the roll of film has gone by the wayside.
    ...both "the roll [rolled-up cylinder] of film" and "the role [function, or part played] of film" work equally well. Both are equally correct and equally true.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
    interestedinEV and bwilson4web like this.
  5. Thanks for sharing this part of your story. Hope you get a chance to drive a Tesla along with all its competitors.
     
  6. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    I am unbiased and I read this article. This is an exact quote from the article

    Each system has limitations. Cadillac's Super Cruise, for instance, only functions on divided highways that have been mapped by GM. In contrast, Tesla's Autopilot can be used even on small, curvy roads with poor lane markings, but "operates erratically in those situations," Consumer Reports said. .......

    The organization tested Super Cruise on the Cadillac CT6; Autopilot on the Tesla Model 3, Model X and Model S; ProPilot Assist on the Nissan Leaf and Infiniti QX50, and Pilot Assist on the Volvo XC40 and XC60. Consumer Reports said Cadillac’s Super Cruise did “the best job of balancing high-tech capabilities with ensuring the car is operated safely and the driver is paying attention.”

    Tesla’s Autopilot was cited for its capability and ease of use, while Nissan’s ProPilot Assist did a better job than Autopilot or Volvo’s Pilot Assist in keeping drivers engaged.


    Not really a ringing endorsement. So, if GM has mapped it, it did well, if not it did not. And the company that is missing in this picture is Wyamo (Google). As far as road mapping is concerned, they I am not sure GM is close to being a competitor to Google with their investment in Google Maps. If Wyamo were to license their technology, they would beat GM hands down in this category. The rumor is that Wyamo wants to do that.


    So under limited circumstances, GM did better but the article does not come out and say that it is a head over shoulders winner. I agree that it does not say that Tesla is the best either, that each company has some plus points and some limitations. Again, there is a difference between Tesla and others that you miss. If I need a car with Super Cruise, I need to buy a new car that already has it and am limited to roads that have been mapped. If I buy a Tesla, I do not need to have this feature today, I can wait till it is refined and then get it installed through a software update. So, Tesla is not there yet, but when ("if" if you want) they get there, it can be retrofitted but not on the Cadillac.
     
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  8. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    Yes it was intentional ;););)
     
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  9. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    It's not about whether I think using customers as sales people is bad or good. But it's the bird dogging rules dealers and other car makers have to comply with.
    I have never seen gift card offered to me by any dealer in 20+ years! See this article. It is simply illegal to compensate unauthorized people in any form in most states.

    http://www.drivingsales.com/news/virginia-goes-after-tesla-motors-over-bird-dogging-laws/
    Tesla has now changed this to non-cash incentives, but still remains illegal. Tesla just gets a pass, because it is the new kid on the block.

    I will be interested to know your state/city. First EV fans claim dealers don't want to sell electric cars. Now you are saying, they are pulling you away from Tesla.
    Well, every sales people will tell you negative things about any competitor's cars.
    And the months of wait time to get a Model 3? Isn't that story promulgated by Tesla and its cult members themselves? "Every car built has a customer's name on it", "No inventory", "Sold out for years", all lies told by Elon and his followers.
    You blaming the sales guy at dealerships for saying the very same thing is really odd.
    I doubt they follow the shorty air force that keeps digging up huge lots full of inventory, so they just tell you what the main media hears from Elon and regurgitates.

    Yeah, I hav efew friends who own Teslas. They were really imporessed with the refuelign speed and ease fo my Clarity. He also didn't quite like the glas roof.
    But his wife wanted one, because everyone semi-rich has to have one to show it off.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    "DrivingSales News • August 13, 2015 • 1 Comment"

    They seem a little lethargic. Anything newer like this?



    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  11. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Your imaginary friends are imporessed... er, impressed... that your Clarity Fuel Cell car can refuel about half as fast as a gasmobile?

    Apparently your imaginary friends are easily impressed!
    :p :p :p
     
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  13. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    CNBC reports that the settlement between the SEC and Elon Musk has hit a snag.

    I'm quite aware that CNBC is far from the most impartial source for Tesla news. But this seems to be entirely factual, with little if any room for misinterpretation (deliberate or accidental) on their part, so I'm guessing it's actually true.

    "US judge asks Tesla's Musk and SEC to justify fraud settlement as 'fair and reasonable'"

    Tesla "shorters" will likely be happy tomorrow. :(

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “All we want are the facts, ma’am.” -- Sgt. Joe Friday, "Dragnet"
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  14. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

  15. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    Covered ~30% fo the shorts today. Elon was too fast last Friday, else I could've covered some Monday and reloaded at $310.
    Now waiting for the next pump to take it to $300 so I can load up to 100%. Hopefully this week wasn't Elon's last rodeo.
    I can already hear ear piercing cries of mourning when I stroll past the bull echo chambers. Hopefully it doesn't get too bad in there.

    JATO sept.jpeg

    Why is JATO estimating 15k Teslas in September? Anecdotally, I am not seeing any higher number of Tesla Model 3 around me.
    I hope Elon hasn't cooked the books. It seems SEC has ongoing investigations on other issues at Tesla, and obviously Elon is in great pain from that. So he is lashing out at SEC like a bad out of control man child.

    Elon is sounding desperate. He is violating the agreement he just made with SEC. Still openly provoking his fan followers trying to hurt short sellers. Doesn't realize he is helping them more with his behavior. Absolutely crazy days.
    cgasp1.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  16. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    No, you very much hope that Tesla would do just that. You keep hoping it so strongly that you have repeatedly insinuated it.

    Nobody is buying your butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth pretenses of innocence about your insinuations.
    (◣_◢)
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Only the ones who sell suffer a loss.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/under-fire-musk-top-fund-202701391.html

    BlackRock spokespeople pointed to filings and company disclosures that showed retail investors receiving around 71.5 percent or more of securities lending income, and said the revenue splits are fully disclosed to clients.
    . . .
    A recent fund filing stated that fund investors will keep between 65 percent to 75 percent of fees earned from securities lending, depending on total revenue metrics. During the 12 months ended March 31, investors in the ETF kept $4.6 million from securities lending, or 73 percent of the net income from securities lending.
    . . .

    Now it begins to make sense how the short schemes work. So if someone claims they made $100,000 from a short position, the institution running the scheme gets about $50,000,~66%. The real losers are the ones who sold their stock at a low price ... their other customers who bought it long for a higher price. So who suggested buying Tesla ... the same investment firm:


    My last working year, I would get a cold call every month about the next greatest stock. I would listen to the pitch ... usually on speaker turned low while I did my work. Then he'd propose I send $5,000 to get on the ground floor.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    You just proved that you have no idea how it works and you also failed to understand the info from Blackrock. You got confused with fee vs. gain in the short trade, and you applied the 65-75% to the gains, and that too, incorrectly
    But I am feeling generous today, so I will spend 5 minutes to explain it with an example.

    Let's say some stock XYZ trades at $100 and I sold short 10 of these, for a total of $1000. I paid nothing to enter the trade, since I actually sold someone else's shares.
    Let's also say the borrow rate is 1% (per year) fixed for the entire time I have it shorted.
    At end of 1 year, stock drops linearly to $50, and I buy back the 10 shares for $500 total.
    With average SP of $75, I will pay 1% of $750 = $7.50 in interest to the lender.
    Rest of $500 (minus trading fee of ~$14 for buy+sell) goes into my pocket.

    The $7.50 I paid in interest (fee) is split between actual share holder (investor) and fund (Blackrock).
    He gets $5 and Blackrock gets $2.50. The bulk of the gain or loss (99% in this example) goes to the short seller.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  20. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Pump-and-dump schemes are shockingly common from investment firms. I suppose they must often make money for the firms, or they wouldn't be so common. But then, most brokers make money on every trade, so they can suck blood from investors just by encouraging any sort of buying or selling activity.

    And if that is evocative of parasites... that's intentional on my part.

     
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  21. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    So your short broker is only pealing off 1/3d of the interest cost. And who is charging the 1%?

    Meanwhile the principle stock sale of the 'borrowed' stock is followed by the 'purchase' is untouched except for any broker fees? Who gets these brokerage fees?

    Yet the article sited reports:

    . . .
    Short-sellers borrow stock and sell it into the market in hopes of buying it back at a lower price later and pocketing the difference, creating a market for securities lending by fund firms who split revenue from the activity with their own investors.

    BlackRock, Tesla's eight-largest shareholder, reported total securities lending revenue of $597 million (455.5 million pounds) in 2017, compared with $579 million in 2016, according to a securities filing. Musk cited the latest figure in a tweet on Friday afternoon.

    BlackRock is the world’s largest asset manager, running a total of $6.3 trillion as of June 30, followed by Vanguard with more than $5 trillion under management.
    . . .

    I went back to re-read the article and saw no reference to splitting the interest 1/3 and 2/3.

    Bob Wilson
     
  22. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Well let's see what BlackRock says: https://www.blackrock.com/investing/products/long-short-funds

    Long/short funds ...

    Because of the higher associated trading costs, long/short mutual funds tend to have higher fees than traditional mutual funds. For example, long/short equity funds averaged a 1.9% expense ratio, compared to a .57% expense ratio average across all mutual funds, according to 2016 data from Morningstar. In addition, the funds make use of more complex investment strategies and can be considered riskier than traditional mutual funds.
    . . .
    Unlike long-only strategies, in a long/short investment strategy, managers buy stocks and bonds that they expect to outperform the market, while taking short positions in assets they expect will underperform. This expands the potential investment universe offering the potential for a more diversified portfolio that is less correlated with equity and fixed income markets.
    . . .

    I'm not finding a way for individuals to 'short' a stock since borrowing is an important aspect. That presumes access to stocks to borrow hence a fund. Have I missed something?

    Still looking, I Googled: http://www.us.placetrade.com/index.php/products-services/short-sale/how-to-borrow-lend-short-sales

    Short Sales

    How to Borrow and Lend in the AQS Marketplace via TWS Stock Borrow/Loan - Overview

    AQS Time Deadlines
    · Market is open: 6:45 - 15:00
    · Price minimum of 200k to borrow easy-to-borrow shares is in effect from 6:45 - 11:00
    · Borrow orders must be greater than or equal to 100k.

    Time deadlines for specific borrow/loan transactions are:

    · Borrow/Loan orders: 6:45 - 14:45
    · Borrow returns: 6:45 - 10:50
    · Borrow rerates: 6:45 - 10:50
    · Loan recalls: 6:45 - 14:45
    · Loan rerates: 6:45 - 10:50

    So they have a more detailed description: http://www.us.placetrade.com/index.php/products-services/short-sale/learn-about-short-sales

    To enact a short sale, Trader A must first confirm that he will be able to borrow the number of shares he plans to sell. Brokers keep a list of available inventory on what is called a Box List. Brokers populate the Box List through their own inventory and shares of others, including their customers who borrow on margin and agree to lend their shares, and other third-party brokers.

    Ah, so the first step is to find these "Box Lists." There are various descriptions of 'fees' without details.

    FYI, Vanguard is my brokerage firm and they have a description I'll read later about how they handle it.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018

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