Clarity PHEV 2019?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by JayR, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    I want something much more informative than the Energy Flow display. I want to see read-outs and/or graphs illustrating the factors the Clarity is using to make decisions, such as the history contributing to the HV/EV ranges. I want to see explanations of decisions, specifically why the engine started up and how long it will be running. I want to scroll through a history of engine activity with the log showing time/date/length-of-time/miles-covered/mpg. I want to know how much electricity I've recovered through regen braking and through EV Charge Mode. I want to see an HV range read-out that is based on the EPA's combined mileage estimate, not the large number of EV miles I've driven. I'm sure others can think of more data that involved drivers might want to see.
     
  2. EJohnH

    EJohnH New Member

    The infotainment system is really not bad with CarPlay. Volume knob would be nice but you get used to the steering wheel controls. Honestly I loved the controls in my Audi being right where you rest your hand which is way better that a volumn knob on the screen. The one thing that drives me crazy about my Cllarity is the totally incorrect numbers that show the range of the car. It seems Honda engineers don’t understand that HV range is how far you can go on the gas in the car. It has a 7 gallon gas tank so seeing a range of 1000 miles is not correct. CAN SOME HONDA ENGINEER FIX THIS, it’s not rocket science. With that aside I love the way the car drives, it is very smooth and quiet. I work 54 miles round trip to work and rarely need to drive in any mode but EV. With 4K on the car I’ve been to the gas station 3 times to get about 20 gallons of gas in total. It also is not slow in sport mode, actually it’s almost fast. There are certainly improvements possible. I love this car and the design is great, yes even the wheel wells are great functional design! They should have made the design the same as the concept car with full cover wheel wells.
     
  3. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    They already fixed the range calculation (they made it so the range can't ever increase). You need to go to dealer and get software update.

    Just be aware with how they fixed range calculation, if your driving style changes your range might show the same value for a while before it starts dropping again. For example, if you are getting 40 mpg but your range estimate showed 220 miles and you had 6 gallons of fuel, it might take 20 miles for your estimate to drop again.

    By preventing it from ever increasing the estimate they get around very high mpg gas/electric messing up range estimate. The update is a passable solution.
     
  4. weave

    weave Active Member

    Wow, still an ugly hack. Can't understand why it's so difficult.

    Just record gasoline usage while in HV mode, note the odometer miles gone during this time. Then average out over last 100 miles in HV mode only, and use that as an estimate for what's left in the tank.
     
  5. Heino

    Heino Active Member

    The Clarity looks a lot better in person... everyone who has seen it thinks it is a very slick car.

    The missing knob on the infotainment system is a non-issue for me... many reviews that I have seen always bring this up - which is dumb. There is a physical volume button on the steering wheel which is placed better.

    This car is amazing - no regrets buying this over a Model 3. It has everything I need where it counts.
     
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  6. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    The issue is the fuel use isn't directly proportional to miles, since it's really a gas generator. For example, if you use HV charge mode a lot you would get a much different result based on calculating this way. The question is what range the average should be calculated over.
     
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  7. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    It isn't a hack, they have to do something to keep the miles driven with EV+ICE to prevent them from influencing range estimate, and preventing it from raising is a perfectly workable solution and completely resolves the issue where the range estimate is too high.
     
  8. Smiley Hacker

    Smiley Hacker New Member

    I must have missed it, but I would like a spare tire.
     
  9. David A

    David A Guest

    IMHO I do not think it was a oversight...I believe the software is functioning as designed. While I will agree it is a totally different way to look at estimated miles...I purposely have not had the update applied. I just run the car and cipher on the high range as I go about my daily routine.

    I have all confidence if I was to run this car for significant miles in HV mode...the high estimate based on previous driving habits...would greatly reduce at an accelerated rate. And by the time I got to thinking about a 6 gal fill-up...the estimated HV mileage would be inline with normal expectations.

    Instead, I am choosing to drive the car as normal and wait to see if I meet or exceed the initial high value estimate...and willing to bet it will be close as long as same driving habits are utilized.

    Not arguing whether it should or should not be fixed or that it makes more sense to majority of people to display near actual range instead of anticipated. When the fix is applied, I imagine what folks do is see how long they can keep the HV range above 200 miles for example. Versus the high range estimate of trying to meet or exceed that number...different approach but both produce same outcome in the end.

    Inquiring minds want to know. I have no doubt some well intentioned dealership will install the patch IF I ever have a need to take it in...so for now, going to evaluate the high range and have fun with it whilst I can.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2018
  10. bfd

    bfd Active Member

    These are transitional vehicles. They don't really have much of a future in the marketplace. They are helping moving more people from ICE to BEV, but when BEVs are getting 300+ miles range at a reasonable price point, the market will shift. It could take many years or it could happen in a decade or less. I'm not planning on keeping this car that long, so I'm betting on the full transition happening sooner rather than later. So I don't see Honda putting lots of time, effort, money into this transitional vehicle. What sales tell us is that the PHEV is outselling the other two models (BEV and FCV) by a wide margin. Some of this is because of the regional sales of FCVs and BEVs vs the national/continental sales of the PHEV. But even here in California, where everyone wants to be different from the crowd - the FCV and BEV leasing rates are not strong enough to support the R&D that went into bringing them to market. The PHEV provides sales and income for Honda right now - as small as that might be - and helps them quite a bit in states like California that are hanging tough on emissions.
     
    Jason N likes this.
  11. David A

    David A Guest

    Couldn't agree more with your comments. I too look at this car as transitional and plan on a 5 year holding period. I have stated before I believe bigger things are coming for EV and other fuel types. The way the technology has accelerated in EVs is truly remarkable. I firmly believe the Tesla Model 3's of today will be almost unrecognizable in 2-3 years in terms of range, drivetrain and charging capability.
     
  12. bpratt

    bpratt Active Member

    I think the PHEV will be around for a long time. Recently, I have read articles about improvements in battery technology. Hyundai and several other companies claim to have solved the problems with solid state batteries. Hyundai claims they are developing a battery that will easily power a car 400+ miles and it can be charged to 80% in 1 minute. The problem with that is today's EVs get at best 4 miles per KWh and when charged with 240 volts they are about 90% efficient. If in the future that were to rise to 6 miles per KWh (very unlikely), that means the cars could travel .1 miles per KWm (1000 watts for 1 minute of charge). Or to charge the car to 400 miles in 1 minute would take a charging station with 4,000,000 watts of power (about the same amount of power to 20,000 newer homes). Even charging it to 400 miles in 10 minutes would take a charging station with 400,000 watts of power.
     
  13. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    When people see my Clarity the response has been very positive. A man at the car wash said it looked like it came out of a time machine. He wanted to know," what kind of car is that". He was amazed by the appearance of the car. Another calls it the George Jetson car.The look provokes curiosity and it make folks want to further inquire about it. Just like the missing knob for volume, the look and many features of this car also takes some getting used to. But now I'm good with it. When people trip to the fact this car functions as an electric car like a Tesla, without the range/charge anxiety, they usually are very delighted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  14. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    I had a supervisor that had a one fix answer for the majority of problems....."don't worry about it". He used tick many people off when he said this. there will never be a perfect range prediction no mater what the display says. As all of you know there are too many variables. Wind speed/direction, stop and go frequency, traffic flow, to name a few. Battery charge frequency per tank of fuel, climate control use, and varying driving habits/modes also factor in. Because I have lots of time behind the wheel I can usually predict when fuel light will come, within a few miles, on the diesel truck I drive at times. If you over think it you will probably err in judgement. I monitered my carmy hybrid so close that I also could closely predict it's range as well, or how much fuel I would have when I got home. So I think the computer between your ears will do a better job if you take some time to calculate it based on your common sense and knowledge. I say this very respectfully to many of you who are more educated and technically minded than me. If you stick to the updated range on the window sticker and adjust to your current battery/fuel gauge levels, you will be close. I know enough from experience not to totally trust the displayed range prediction on any vehicle.
     
    David A likes this.
  15. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Right. I swore I wouldn't buy a car without a spare yet here I am. The Clarity is such a good car I had to make the sacrifice.

    My concern is in the area we live it is quite easy to be out of cell phone range on a lonely road. In the winter this also can mean steady rain. Nobody wants to be jacking up a car and replacing a wheel in the mud and rain but it beats just sitting there with zero solution. Yes there is the patch kit but I have little hope that would fix many types of flats.

    Even if we have cell service I can easily imagine waiting one to two hours for someone to show up with a flatbed. They'd haul it to a garage that may not be open until the next morning. The whole thing stinks.
     
  16. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I agree the Clarity is transitional. I have to believe that BEV cars will be available within five years that offer 300+ miles per charge with under 15 minute or less charge times. At that point it makes sense to switch to one of those BEVs. As much as I like the Clarity I still want to get rid of the ICE. There is no way I want to sit for hours to charge a current model BEV while on a long trip. The Clarity fills the gap.
     
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  17. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    I had an experience when I got a flat tire last year. The lug wrench that came with the car from the dealership would not remove the lug nuts. Apparently the lug nuts were slightly mushroomed from the impact tool used for several tire rotations. So I had everything except a way to get the tire off.I was forced to use fix a flat tire sealant(and later put a plug in also) to repair it, and drive about 100 miles on this tire. I used a portable compressor to air the tire back up about every 30 minutes or so as it was still loosing some air. The sealant did not completely seal the tire but I was able to reach a repair shop the next morning. I now keep a plug kit in my car also and will hopefully be able to temporarily fix most types of flats. I did get a spare off eBay from a 2008 infinity that fits the clarity.according to the information I got on this forum, but really doubt that I will ever use it because the compressor with tire sealant should suffice. I will definitely try the plug first if possible to avoid putting in the sealant and having to hassle with cleaning the resonator on the wheel. I makes me feel more secure with a spare on longer trips but I think Honda got it right not including a spare in this car given the added weight and space it takes up.
     
  18. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    Another way to think about it is that Honda has developed and deployed the most underreported yet amazing propulsion system in the entire car industry. Check out the new review from Motor Trend entitled "2018 Honda Accord Hybrid First Test: High Expectations Exceeded" ( https://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/accord-hybrid/2018/2018-honda-accord-hybrid-first-test-review/ ). In the article, real world testing showed 53.3/49 mpg (city/highway) which is about the same as the much smaller and less appealing Prius. Amazingly, it does 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, which is about a second faster than the ICE versions of its mid-sized competitors. Seriously, why would anyone buy a regular ICE car when this car gives you near V6 performance and over 50 mpg?! Sorry to be long winded but the Accord's drive train is identical to the Clarity's except that the Accord has a 2.0 litre ICE to make up for the much smaller battery. Both cars can put out 212 hp and 235 lb ft of torque max. I think of the Clarity as an Accord Hybrid with a big battery that allows me to drive 90% of the time in all EV mode. With my town's electric rates, my fuel cost is still 1/3 that of the Accord Hybrid (1/6 the cost of my Subaru). For many, the Accord Hybrid is the better choice. Because it lacks the incentives, it actually costs substantially more than the Clarity (which most buyers don't realize) but still only $1500 more than the identically equipped but otherwise slower ICE version. There is no longer any excuse to drive anything that gives you less than 50 mpg.
     
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  19. GTO 409

    GTO 409 Member

    [QUOTE="There is no longer any excuse to drive anything that gives you less than 50 mpg.”[/QUOTE]

    I can think of several!

    1. The Honda Clarity, Insight, and Accord are all new models and that means taking on the risks associated with a first year's model. Many different issues are already appearing...

    2. The crash test results are not out yet for the first and last of these, and only the IIHS ones for the Insight, not the NHTSA.

    3. The Prius has weaker crash results in key certain areas.

    4. The Clarity and Accords are TOO BIG for many people's garages!

    5. For people who do not drive very much, the extra costs associated with buying a hybrid won't be recouped, or at least not for a long time.

    6. A corollary to point #5: The federal tax incentive doesn't apply to the hybrids any longer and the one for the Clarity requires having taxable income — so, the $7,500 is a snare and delusion for many.

    7. The Hondas lack true BSM and RCTA — save for the higher Accord hybrid trim, which means more money — and a moon roof that removes head room!

    8. Many regular ICEs have much improved MPGs compared to a decade or two ago, so they are attractive in their own right (and still have many new safety features).

    9. New and improved hybrid and plugin hybrid and electric models are just around the corner! Why buy this year, when in in just one or two, there could be major improvements or, at least, fixes for the first year models?!

    10. Many people do not even have the $22,000+ to afford a 50 mpg car!

    I don't mean to nitpick, though I have, but my point is that there are legitimate, well-founded reasons to hold off buying a hybrid or a plug-in! And, good reasons to buy a car that gets less than 50 mpg!
     
  20. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    It will be a long time before you can charge an ev as quick as quick as
    I can think of several!

    1. The Honda Clarity, Insight, and Accord are all new models and that means taking on the risks associated with a first year's model. Many different issues are already appearing...

    2. The crash test results are not out yet for the first and last of these, and only the IIHS ones for the Insight, not the NHTSA.

    3. The Prius has weaker crash results in key certain areas.

    4. The Clarity and Accords are TOO BIG for many people's garages!

    5. For people who do not drive very much, the extra costs associated with buying a hybrid won't be recouped, or at least not for a long time.

    6. A corollary to point #5: The federal tax incentive doesn't apply to the hybrids any longer and the one for the Clarity requires having taxable income — so, the $7,500 is a snare and delusion for many.

    7. The Hondas lack true BSM and RCTA — save for the higher Accord hybrid trim, which means more money — and a moon roof that removes head room!

    8. Many regular ICEs have much improved MPGs compared to a decade or two ago, so they are attractive in their own right (and still have many new safety features).

    9. New and improved hybrid and plugin hybrid and electric models are just around the corner! Why buy this year, when in in just one or two, there could be major improvements or, at least, fixes for the first year models?!

    10. Many people do not even have the $22,000+ to afford a 50 mpg car!

    I don't mean to nitpick, though I have, but my point is that there are legitimate, well-founded reasons to hold off buying a hybrid or a plug-in! And, good reasons to buy a car that gets less than 50 mpg![/QUOTE]
    You need to take the last sentence in context. The implication is assuming you are in the market for and can afford a new car in that price range. I think the main point is that the ice accord way out sells the accord hybrid by far, but the accord hybrid is far superior in efficiency and has similar performance as a accord sport or touring 2.0 liter turbo. So it's an ignorance barrier. Honda has developed aggressive technological advancements in hybrid power trains. They have a great reputation and the accord hybrid has been around quite a few years and the clarity utilizes much of the same technology. So they didn't need to reinvent the wheel on this one.
     

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