Best PHEV in America: Alex on Autos

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Lowell_Greenberg, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Yes, but even with the federal tax credit the Clarity isn't 1/2 of the what the Model 3 sells for. I was also addressing his other contentions which I think were somewhat inaccurate and subjective. I didn't even comment on styling since so many think the Clarity is ugly (I don't) and comments on the Model 3 are mixed. This is all subjective.
  2. kunz427

    kunz427 Member

    If we're comparing the base M3 to the base Clarity, then keep in mind that the base M3 only comes with standard cruise control whereas base Clarity comes with LKAS & ACC. So 1 more point to Clarity?
  3. Agzand

    Agzand Active Member

    I was comparing the standard + ($39k, assuming you are OK with white), after $1875 federal credit it is $37,125. The short range has much shorter range than Clarity. Clarity base model transaction price is about $27k (some got them below $26k), after $7500 credit it is $19500. It is not exactly half but close, if you choose any color other than white it is really close.

    Level 2 charger is not really needed for Clarity, but definitely needed for Tesla. I have a 100 amp panel at my house with electric range, dryer and oven, the maximum charger that I could install using this panel was 16 amp, and that was with some sort of switch to alternate between the dryer and EVSE. The wiring quote was $1100 I believe. The 240v plug is in the laundry room, not in the garage.

    Regarding build quality, a Honda will easily last 200k miles and 20 years. A Tesla, I am not sure, it could but there is not a single record of a 20 year old Tesla.

    I agree with your other arguments.
  4. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    For most people, realistically they will need level 2 if it will be their only car. It will be inevitable that days with longer driving will run together and level 1 charging won't be able to keep up. I am sure there are people who are exceptions, they can have a Tesla as their only car and get along fine with level 1, but I think that number would be relatively small. Or if they accept that they just call Uber in the occasional situations when they don't have enough charge, then it would work for them, but not everyone is willing to accept that limitation.

    Installing level 2 isn't a huge deal, especially in hindsight for someone who has already done it. But for someone new to EV they have to figure out what size circuit they should install, what amperage level of charger they should get, what brand, find an electrician, etc, and meanwhile try and keep costs down by not overpaying for any one of these. None of this is insurmountable and to us it's no big deal, just requires a little online research. But a lot of people unless there is someone guiding them through the process they will be hesitant.

    Certainly the need for level 2 is not a reason in and of itself to get a PHEV instead of an EV, I am just pointing out the viewpoint that the average consumer might have on just this one particular item.
    Ken7 likes this.
  5. It’s still an apples to oranges comparison.

    As far as the price, the $19.5K figure has not taken into consideration state and local rebates. NY $1700, CA $2500-4500, OR $2500, CO $5000.

    Net cost for a base Clarity could approach $15K.
    Agzand likes this.
  6. Agzand

    Agzand Active Member

    Yes, but those are also available for Tesla. The federal credit makes Clarity cheaper. It is mind boggling how you can get a car with all these features/size and electric to top it off, for the price of a Nissan Versa or Kia Rio.
  7. Does Tesla have the $4K-6K incentive that Honda has been offering? How much room for negotiation is there on the price of a Tesla? Isn’t the Federal tax credit for the Tesla $1850 and soon to be $0?

    What is the maximum amount of Federal, State, Local and dealer incentives a buyer could expect to get on the purchase of a new Tesla?

    I agree that the features on the car for a net cost in the low $20K’s for our Touring model made the decision a no-brainer when looking at other options in the same price range.

    The technology is remarkable and expensive. Even with $15K or more in incentives, Honda is still trying to move 2019 and 2018 models off the showroom floor.
  8. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Actually the base Model 3 comes with autopilot. So 2 points for the Model 3.
  9. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    There’s no reason a Tesla can’t last as long or longer than the Clarity. The car has far fewer parts, there isn’t a single Tesla owner since the car came out that’s had to pay for a new battery.

    A level 2 charger, Clarity or Tesla, is to me a necessity. Once you see how fast the Level 2 is, it’s extremely hard to go back to a Level 1.

    As for comparing, I’d do base to base. The 3 is a better equipped car IMO and white is fine.
  10. Agzand

    Agzand Active Member

    There is also no reason that a Chevy or Hyundai or BMW or Yogo can't last as long as a Honda. They have the same number of moving parts (fewer in case of Yogo). They just won't last as long, because they are either not designed or built to the same standard or prohibitively expensive to keep on the road.

    The oldest Tesla battery on the road is only 8 years old. I am talking about a 12 year or 15 year old car. I am not saying that it won't last, but there is no evidence that it will. Besides I am not talking about battery only. More cars fall apart due to electrical (sensors), shocks/chassis, trim etc. than powertrain itself.
  11. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    We have no evidence either car will last longer. The fact is a Clarity has both an internal combustion engine and electric propulsion. That's simply more complicated with far more parts that can fail relative to a Model 3 or other BEV. There actually is evidence a battery in a Tesla will last 12-15 years. They have been tested to last hundreds of thousands of miles. Based on the very slight loss of range over a number of years, this is further evidence indicative of the longevity of these batteries. Tesla has an unquestionable lead in this area relative to any other BEV or PHEV. Most owners will have moved on to their next car before they incur any major breakdown or battery failure. Can suspension parts as well as other traditional parts fail just as in any other car? Of course.

    I realize that having an objective discussion in a Clarity forum is not very realistic anymore than having the same discussion in a Tesla forum is not. I contributed here only because I have both cars, experience in driving both cars and therefore I thought I might be a bit more objective. Although I don't own a Model 3, both the S & 3 are similar enough that having one gives an owner insight into the other.

    Both the Model 3 & Clarity are excellent cars that offer a very different driving experience.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  12. bulls96

    bulls96 Member

    I'm sorry I may have helped turn this thread into a PHEV VS Tesla thread. I digress..

    Title is the Clarity is the best PHEV and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Teslawannabe and Ken7 like this.
  13. kunz427

    kunz427 Member

    I believe Not. It's a 3k add on feature on the 35k base M3.

    It's the off-menu standard range (SR) model. It is physically the same as the standard range plus (SR+), with some aspects locked behind software. You can pay the difference to have it unlocked to SR+ later. The differences are:

    • Reduced range (rated 220 miles vs 240 miles)

    • Disabled LED Fog Lights

    • Disabled immersive audio (SR+ gets limited immersive, and long-range/performance gets full immersive)

    • Disabled Autopilot (standard non-adaptive cruise-control is all you get)
  14. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

  15. Like up to your waist?
    insightman and Agzand like this.
  16. Agzand

    Agzand Active Member

  17. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member Subscriber

    It’s really strange the only “discussion” on this thread is comparing the Clarity PHEV to a BEV. That has almost nothing to do with the Alex on Autos review. What’s strange is that no one on here apparently knows anything about other PHEVs? Anyone have any input on PHEVs from other manufacturers?
    bulls96 likes this.
  18. I drove a gen 1 Chevrolet Volt for six years before it got totalled a few weeks ago. With a daily commute around the same length as its EPA battery range it was a good fit for me and I enjoyed the car greatly. I burned some gasoline during the winter months to extend range and heat the cabin, but that amounted to 10 gallons a season or so.
    This experience reinforced in me the desire to have a car that would allow me to do my 38 mile round trip reliably without having to start an ICE. With the Volt out of production and no desirable leftovers in the dealer lots, I have found that the Clarity is the sole PHEV that accomplishes what I want (while simultaneously becoming a comfortable car for multi-day road trips). Neither the Prius Prime nor Fusion Energi will give me the gasoline-free commutes that I want.

    After the Volt died, with no Clarity in the trim and colors that I wanted less than 500 miles from home I purchased a 2-year old Nissan Leaf for my daily commuter and am hoping to maybe buy a 2020 Clarity next Spring to replace our eight year old Prius as the road trip car.
    Ryan C and Walt R like this.
  19. The Fusion has less EV range, a smaller trunk, reduced incentives and may be a bit smaller overall.

    Pretty much everything other than the Volt has less EV range.

    EV range and the incentives were the 2 most important factors in our decision.

    A larger fuel tank would be nice on longer trips. There is still enough fuel for 3-4 hours of driving at 70-80mph. That’s long enough for one stretch.

    In the past 3 weeks I’ve driven over 700 miles and used about 2 gallons of fuel. HV range says 203. That’s because most of my daily driving is 50 miles or less, round trip. Yesterday was 52 with 6 miles remaining.

    I’ve only charged at the house. Had I looked for chargers while out on the longer mileage days, fuel consumption would be zero. Couldn’t have done that with a PHEV that only has a 21 mile EV range.
    Ryan C likes this.
  20. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    I was talking about the on-menu standard model that’s immediately seen on the Tesla website. I don’t even see how you do an ‘off-menu’ selection. So I’m picking what I suspect most people would.

    Autopilot is included for the base price of $38,990. There is a federal tax rebate of $1875 + $2000 NY rebate (many states offer these and often they are more generous than NY). That brings the incentives to $3,875 and brings the cost of the car with Autopilot down to $35,115. That’s the legitimate price I’d pay today for a nicely equipped Model 3 with the following features and a 240 mile range. I should also add the fact that the Tesla offers OTA updates which I have found to be great on my S. I suspect you’ll see more BEVs offering this feature in the coming years:
    • 12-way power adjustable heated front seats
    • Premium seat material and trim
    • Upgraded audio – immersive sound
    • Music and media over Bluetooth®
    • Tinted glass roof with ultraviolet and infrared protection
    • Auto dimming, power folding, heated side mirrors
    • Custom driver profiles
    • Center console with storage, 4 USB ports and docking for 2 smartphones
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019

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