Battery breakthroughs

Discussion in 'General' started by Domenick, Oct 7, 2017.

To remove this ad click here.

  1. Every year or so I get so frustrated with the misuse of units that I have to express myself in a post. I'll go back to keeping quiet now.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

    Domenick likes this.
  4. The Coulombic efficiency is too low at 97.9%, as is the number of cycles at 150. Also, note that while tin is fairly cheap it is also fairly rare, so scaling up may (or may not) cause pricing issues.

    At best, there is still a lot of development to go.
     
  5. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

    Had I bothered to read http://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.7b00844 that data would have been obviuos! Lazy me.
    Sites such as New Atlas abound & are fun to read but usually 'cherry pick' the bits that make the best 'news'.
    Sadly, another exaggerated claim. What if the Toyota Solid State battery turns out to be exaggerated, too? I'm too optimistic!
     
  6. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

    Have watched all the 'battery breakthrough' reports, good to have all the variants in one place, well done.
    Now any & all of these new advances can be entered & we can all express disappointment as they continue
    to be not-quite-what-is-being-claimed!
     
    Domenick likes this.
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. One day, though. One day there will be a breakthrough that's commercialized and will cut batteries size in half and triple range.
    Maybe.
     
  9. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

    Something dramatic WILL happen- whether 'conventional' battery tech or an unexpected new approach. Too many smart people working hard
    to make the BIG EV breakout, at a cost/performance point WAY below ICE.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  10. Fisker Patents Solid-State Battery Tech, Commercialization By 2023

    Just one of several solid state battery efforts, Fisker is promising more than he may be able to deliver. I can deal with claims of 2-1/2 improved energy density (this is a fuzzy number, since the base energy density is not explicitly stated, just "today's batteries, " which covers a wide range.) This Ultracharging 500 miles in one minute is a little hard to swallow.

    To be fair, I haven't seen the actual claim by Fisker that it does this (does it exist?), but he certainly doesn't argue with the figure when it comes up in the interview here. I think we'd all be pretty happy with 1mW charging (or Megacharging, in Tesla parlance). 500 miles in ten minutes isn't so bad, especially if the other part -- the interface automatically plugs itself into the car from below -- is made to happen.

     
  11. To remove this ad click here.

  12. Battery research could triple range of electric vehicles

    This has to do with coating lithium metal for an electrode, to mitigate fire and general degradation.
    Basically: "Researchers solved both problems by adding a chemical compound made of phosphorus and sulfur elements to the electrolyte liquid that carries electrical charge within batteries.

    The compound reacts with the lithium metal electrode in an already assembled battery to spontaneously coat it with an extremely thin protective layer.
    "
     
  13. Roy_H

    Roy_H Active Member

    This "breakthrough" is now 7 years old, and still my favorite. From http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/09/alginate-20110909.html

    " In a paper published in the journal Science, the team reported mixing silicon nanopowder with alginate to yield a stable battery anode possessing reversible capacity 8 times higher than that of the state of the art graphitic anodes. The anode also demonstrates a coulombic efficiency approaching 100% and has been operated through more than 1,000 charge-discharge cycles without failure."

    Seems to hit all the high points with cheap to produce, environmentally friendly process, compatible with common battery manufacturing process. The down side seems to be "The electrodes showed a moderate rate capability, the team found, inferior to that achieved in Si-C composite anodes with hierarchical porosity or in nanowires." Although that seems to be still high at 4200mA/g. No news in 7 years, does anybody know what happened?
     
  14. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Then perhaps you'll enjoy this:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Yeah, xkcd is a comic I follow. That was a good one.
     

  16. Couldn't find anything about this approach specifically, though I did find this other scientist using alginate but not with Si.
    Seaweed: From Superfood to Superconductor
     
  17. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    I think the problem with batteries is that there are so many criteria that one has to meet, simultaneously, including

    Energy density
    Charge power
    Discharge power
    Robustness regarding high/low temperatures
    Efficiency (Energy out / Energy in)
    Number of cycles
    Safety
    Vibration resistance
    Toxicity
    Cost
    Loss of capacity with age
    Recyclability
    Availability of materials
    ...
    And probably a lot more.

    'Breakthroughs' tend to be announced in one area, and as often as not have a bad impact on another area. Sadly they ALL have to be met at the same time.

    It is very telling that ICE manufacturers still feel that Lead-acid cells are the best solution for the cars they supply, despite it being over 150 years old technology.
     
  18. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

    Is that not simply they cost far less than L-ion?
     
  19. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    The rule of thumb for those building EV conversion cars is that if you're going to keep the car long enough to replace the batteries twice -- that is, you're going to have to buy them three times -- then it's cheaper in the long run to buy li-ion batteries.

    I don't know why this isn't a factor in gasmobiles. Does the average owner not keep the car long enough to replace the starter battery twice? Maybe most people don't keep their cars as long as I have.

    One question we should ask is about performance in sub-zero temperatures. I know that lead-acid battery performance is reduced in very low temperatures, but is it reduced as much as li-ion performance? If lead-acid performs better when it's very cold, that may explain why we have not yet seen any general trend toward using li-ion batteries as starter batteries. Likely another factor is performance when they get hot. I think there's no question that lead-acid batteries are immune to relatively high temperatures, while li-ion batteries clearly are not.
     
  20. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

    I merely meant lead-acid is cheap. It is also very heavy & low-voltage, comparatively. Would a high performance / long range EV be feasible using only lead-acid? 'Relative performance' I'm not familiar with.
     
  21. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I just meant "performance" in the general sense, as in how well or poorly any useful thing performs its intended function.

    Feasibility of a lead-acid BEV? Well, keep in mind the first generation GM EV1 used a lead-acid battery pack. As soon as the tech was feasible and/or affordable (model year 1999), they changed that for a NiMH battery pack, and got improved range.

    In general, only cheap low-speed EVs and conversion vehicles (including some Chinese make EVs) are still using lead-acid batteries. Some PHEVs are still using NiMH battery packs, altho the energy density there is lower, which means they are larger and heavier than li-ion batteries for the same capacity (number of kWh).

    So far as I know, all current highway-capable production BEVs use li-ion batteries.
    -
     

Share This Page