"Angry Bees"

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Mesa, Dec 25, 2018.

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  1. Clarity 4 life

    Clarity 4 life New Member

    I normally drive 55 - 100 mph on the I-95 110 miles round trip 4 times a week.
    Just hit 9k miles since November 4, 2018.
    That's 4 months exactly.
    I would have more miles, but I was using up the miles left on my 2016 TT Roadster lease. The TT roadster was a very fun car to drive, but it too has angry bees under heavy acceleration.
    Now as for the 2018 Clarity, as long as there is 30%-85% battery life, I don't hear the "angry bees" in HV mode.
    Even at the maximum speed of 100 mph.

    I Do hear them at heavy acceleration once in a while, at low speeds, but it is not much different then any other naturally aspirated 4 cylinder.

    There is nothing wrong with the Honda Clarity and the angry bees.

    Just needs a lot more sound and heat insulation. Which would add more weight and cost just like my 2013 MB S550.
    FYI, the Clarity has less road and wind noise than a 6 year old S-Class.

    Loving my Clarity.
    I just have to get used to the fact that I'll never be able to go 125 mph.
     
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  3. Clarity_Newbie

    Clarity_Newbie Active Member

    ClarityBill

    Nice data and good write-up. I just downloaded the data from the February testing and put together this data for your info.

    I have uploaded a file which depicts ~2.25 hours of 60 + mph and associated RPM data to include in this discussion. Obviously HV mode with no sport or ECON engaged.

    The data was filtered for 60 mph+ and a minimum RPM of 1500. Events below 1500 are insignificant events at these speeds when HV mode engaged.

    As noted before, the Clarity I drive has never responded differently based on SoC. On these data days...SoC was at 80% or greater so pointless to graph.

    I plan to provide more extensive data in another thread at a later date.

    Hope this helps.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    KentuckyKen likes this.
  4. Clarity 4 life

    Clarity 4 life New Member

    I normally drive 55 - 100 mph on the I-95 with moderate traffic.
    Feels pretty comfortable to me.
    And I drove a 2013 MB S550 before my Clarity. Usually 55 - 125 mph.
     
  5. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member


    I disagree with a couple implications:

    "So the fact that this car runs it’s engine periodically at higher speeds is fully expected, and very efficient."
    The ICE may be efficient at high RPM's, but I have found gear mode to give me much better gas mileage.

    "do NOT hit the EV button just to shut the engine down!"
    You also imply that I hit the EV button to shut down the engine: I hit the HV button to keep the system in gear mode, not shut down the engine. You then go on to say Honda should have given us a way to do what I am doing... Just need an easier way to do it.

    I do agree it is ridiculous to have to do these things, and Honda coulda/shoulda made a different system, but ya gotta dance with the partner you have. I am glad that I have found a way to keep the car in gear mode, when it is appropriate.

    I am also not convinced the car needs to sacrifice quieter ride for efficiency: I have taken this same highway in gear mode, and in 'let the car do what it thinks best' mode. My gas mileage is significantly better in gear mode, and much quieter.
     
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  6. Atkinson

    Atkinson Active Member

    The ICE may run at high RPM, not specifically for efficiency, but to restore battery charge in HV mode.
    HV Mode was supposed to be "High Voltage Battery Keep Charge" or in other words, "hold the charge where it is right now".
    Once you get down out of that charge range the computer is trying to hold for you, the powertrain will attempt to recover the charge the only way it can.
    Its not more efficient at high RPM, just doing what it's being told to do as efficiently as it can.
     
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  8. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    Atkinson:

    I agree with your description "hold the charge where it is right now". The coulda/shoulda would be to allow the charge to vary more, while staying in gear mode.

    I have found the HV mode will switch to 'high-rev charge mode' just before I crest a hill (and still over 50% SOC). The ICE will then shut down on the next decline: If the computer had allowed a little more flexibility, it would have stayed in gear mode.

    The 'feature' seems worse at lower temperatures and high SOC. I got my Clarity in October, and have seen very little drive time over 32F, but over 12K miles driven. I look forward to spring, and seeing if gear mode is less elusive with warmer temperatures.

    I have seen a couple comments of high rev's when going up hills, and I would love to hear if a quick switch to EV solves this for others. I am not suggesting it every time, but just when it is found to be annoying. I may never do it again, but it is nice to have in the bag of tricks.
     
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  9. Atkinson

    Atkinson Active Member

    I think a quick switch to EV resets the HV charge range (now to a lower band) and thats what allows you to get back in "gear mode".
    You should be able to do the same thing on more or less level terrain for a few minutes with a light foot on the accelerator, but the quick switch to EV is faster.
     
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  10. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    Atkinson:

    I agree with your first statement - resets the HV charge range.

    I don't understand the second statement - Are you implying the charge range will reset on level terrain with a light foot? Seems to me the charge range stays the same, but the ICE is able to get the SOC back into the charge range, then goes into gear mode: These seem very different routes to gear mode.
     
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  11. Atkinson

    Atkinson Active Member

    By charging the battery (driving with a light foot), you get back into the original charge level range when HV mode was engaged and the powertrain computer allows engine mode (clutch lock).
     
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  13. Complete report to follow, but on our current cross country trip, we’ve seen the EV range gradually increment down from 44 to 29. HV mode the entire time and lots of “gear icon” mode. That’s over roughly 1,000 miles of driving so far.
     
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  14. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    How do you remind yourself to punch HV every time you set out again after a stop?
     
  15. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    Fast Eddie:

    On this trip, do you know how many times you had to 'restart' HV mode? (Everytime the car is shut off, etc.)

    (I believe you lose 1 to 3 miles of charge every time HV is restarted.)
     
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  16. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    LOL. I loose 3 to 5 miles of EV because I can’t remwber to push the %*@! HV button at every fuel up. I’m usually back on the Interstate when I look down and see I’m in EV and go DUH! Or maybe a little worse on a bad day.
    Guess I need an HV label like @insightman uses
     
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  17. As far as remembering, I’ve just established what pilots call a “flow”.

    Start car.
    HV?
    SPORT?
    Brake Hold.

    We’ve filled up 4 times so far.

    Probably a dozen or so restarts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
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  18. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    4 fillups would be 5 starts on HV - 44-29=15 /5 = 3 miles lost per start. This does not seem unusual to me.

    When I use HV, I normally see a loss of EV range at startup, then maintains the level (with up and down fluctuations) for hours of driving. The ICE will actually shut down before it gets back to the original charge level.

    My explanation for this is the controller in the Clarity needs an offset to get the charging going. This is normal in a controller that only uses proportional control. (I use this offset to eliminate high-revs on long inclines, by restarting HV.)

    I keep thinking Honda could have installed a 'better' control system on this...

    Just my observations, YMMV...
     
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  19. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    Interesting. The EV range reduction likely mostly due to the higher Interstate speeds causing aero drag and the car is recalculating range to account for that. It takes a lot more power to push a car through the air at 60 than it does at 30 mph
     
  20. MPower

    MPower Well-Known Member

    Also, what are the outside temperature changes along your route. There were times on my Christmas trip where i woke up the next day enroute without charginging overnight with slightly more estmated miles on EV than I had the night before because the temperature was unseasonably warm.

    Maybe your temperature is going in the other direction?
     
  21. Temps have ranged from a rainy 50° leaving home to about 88° in S FL.

    But regardless of temps and speeds, I’d think the algorithm to maintain EV range could be tuned to do a better job. From watching the energy display, it sure seems like there are numerous times when extra green electrons could be recruited to bump the EV level back up. It would be nice if it was like a cruise control, where you could just select, let’s say, 30 miles EV range remaining and would hold that amount exactly.
     
  22. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I agree 100%. The question is whether the Clarity in HV should wait for regen opportunties and, if so, how long should it wait before stealing power from the engine (as in HV CHARGE mode) to return the battery to the SoC when HV was pressed.

    It's interesting that some people (@KentuckyKen) don't experience any loss of SoC in HV. All Clarity PHEVs are definitely NOT created equal.
     
  23. Groves Cooke

    Groves Cooke Active Member

    "All Clarity PHEVs are definitely NOT created equal."

    Nor are all drivers. Terrain differs too. Do people get this worked up when their car, SUV or truck does not get exactly what the EPA estimates that it will get? Also does the range estimator on any car perfect?
     

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