But is it reasonable for the MM to dictate an oil change after ~6,000 miles if the engine hasn't started even once in that distance?
My Clarity starts the ICE every 4-6 weeks (if I do not use HV mode) to circulate the oil. It has done this at least twice in the 11 months we have owned the Clarity. The caveat in my post was the possibility of the MM algorithm trying to minimize separate dealer instances. If it is time for the tire rotation and the ICE has not been used much and the oil is well less than a year old, the algorithm is probably not optimum if an oil change is required (an "A1" service rather than just a "1" service). So yes, it is unreasonable if an "A" service is always required when another service is needed. But, the particular situation of 6000 miles with little or no ICE running and much less than a one year interval since the last oil change is very untypical (an outlier) and I think it is reasonable to forgive the programmers for not considering this particular situation. Leop
There are many reports on this forum of people describing exactly that scenario. For the broad population of Honda cars, it is correct to say that this kind of driving situation would be rare, but I think for the Clarity PHEV, this is closer to the norm, as many/most drive at 80-95% EV usage, and getting an "A1 or "A01" service flag at 6200 - 7200 miles on the odometer. Most report that either the oil service notification occurs with either less than 1500 miles on HV or alternatively report using <20-25 gallons of gas and with 5-9 months of driving. And yes I think no one is saying the 12 month oil change is inappropriate/unreasonable.
I believe the Clarity has enough computing power, memory, and data available to inform the MM how much time the engine has been running since the last oil change. Adjusting the oil-change interval to reflect the actual running engine running time (as well as accounting for the annual maximum) would handle the outliers and make owners more confident in the MM's dictates.
You could buy and return motor oil case and filters to cover yourself with a paper trail. I wouldn’t do that but someone could.
leop "...But, the particular situation of 6000 miles with little or no ICE running and much less than a one year interval since the last oil change is very untypical (an outlier) and I think it is reasonable to forgive the programmers for not considering this particular situation..." It is reasonable to figure Honda didn't plan for the oil change situation in regards to the MM...no argument. It is also reasonable to figure Honda would have already had a fix out or indicated it was working on one. Instead folks get nothing but crickets. "...The 3.5 quarts of oil get quite a workout (as does the ICE). Yes, the oil change maintenance minder often comes up before a year and we do not know its algorithm. However, the algorithm seems to take into account the running time, work load history, and temperature history of the ICE as well as trying to minimize dealer service instances. The one year change interval, even with very low miles, is not unreasonable at all..." Sure it may run higher rpms for some of the time...no argument. To say the MM includes run time, work load, temp history etc in the algorithm might be a stretch and gives it too much credit. Just reading these forums I sense vehicle usage is all over the map. Folks talk about putting 15 gal of gas in the tank with 6k on the odo while others have 20k miles on the odo...and it seems like the top of the bell shaped curve is 6500 - 7500 miles when the MM says time to change the oil regardless of usage. Speaking for the Clarity I drive...I figure I'm in the middle of the pack gas wise. I routinely run in HV mode 2-3 times a month because I believe its a good idea. Which means I use more gas than the folks who run EV almost exclusively. So theoretically the MM in my Clarity should come on sooner since I work it more. But it doesn't. From my perspective based solely on what I read in these forums...there is very little correlation to work load, run times etc. The MM pipes up for an oil change around the exact same mileage it recommends for ICE only cars...too coincidental for me. As for the twelve months, I haven't read where anyone is questioning the twelve months change interval...that is the current oil change "gospel" based on lubrication technology today....much like 40 years ago the "gospel" was 3/6 months or 3k or less. Improvements in the science of lubrication is an amazing thing and bound to get better...which means eventually the current "gospel" will also change. One last thing on the "sound" of the Clarity ICE...I also drive a 2017 Honda CRV, Toyota Rav4H and a 2019 Subaru Impreza hatchback. 80% of the time the ICE in the Clarity sounds amazing close to other 4 cylinders when asked for increased power. I call it the 4 cyl whine. Only 20% of the time when it is trying to do what it does...does it make what I would consider "excessive noise" but even then it isn't egregious. At the end of the day...I love the car. These forums are always very informative and keep us all on our collective toes...lol Good luck.
MNSteve When it comes to a computer program in a vehicle...which is what we are discussing...it is a safe bet it is identical in all Clarity's at least to this point since we all share the same model year. So no real extrapolation necessary. This is an ongoing discussion about the usefulness of the MM for oil changes in the Clarity...that is all it is. I believe the ultimate goal for some of us is to understand the algorithm which, as leop stated, no one really understands what drives it (pun intended). That is my goal at least. And its okay if two people have slightly different views and discuss appropriately. As the kids say today...Its all good. Great info. Have a good day.
The extrapolation I was warning about was things like using the ICE only rarely, and the discussion related to resetting the MM based on owner-done maintenance. I do not think that the people who inhabit this extraordinarily useful forum are a valid sample of the population of Clarity drivers, so I am cautious about basing conclusions and assumptions on what people report here. And maybe I am wrong even about that . . . the population of Clarity drivers is small, and maybe it is accurately reflected in the sample here in this forum. I am in no way suggesting that there is anything wrong with the discussions here, and I have gained a lot of insight by reading what other people have shared.
Based on the posts here, it appears to me that the MM is not programmed to distinguish between total miles and HV miles. Thus for those who put a normal to high number of miles on their car, they get oil change intervals of around 6,000 to 7,000 miles regardless of how little of that was in HV. And for low milage drivers like me (6,000 miles in 10 months), the MM allows longer intervals. In my case the first sevice is being called for at almost exactly at 1 year. Then on top of the problem of not tracking HV miles is the fact that the MM is programmed to try to minimize the number of service visits when possible. Thus it will move up some services so that they coincide with earlier scheduled ones. This combination can cause oil change intervals to be absurdly and unnecessary shortened when you’re driving predominantly in EV based on the time and miles that the ICE had been operating. The manual says the max oil change interval is 1 year, and I’m going by that since my ICE has only been on for 12.6 hours in 10 months. Not an issue for me since my low miles make the MM indicate a 1 year first service. If it didn’t, I’d do the selective reset mentioned above. The info on the MM moving up services to coincide is from an official Honda source I found on line but was not specific to the Clarity. I make the assumption that our Clarity’s MM is programmed the same and that is supported by the posts where some one reset a service and it lengthened the interval for another one.
This is pure speculation but I think the the MM may give an "A" service (oil and filter change) for every reminder. A reminder caused by any other need ("0" or "1" or whatever) will also have a "A". This can easily be disproved by someone saying that their Clarity MM gave out a reminder without an "A". I have yet to see a reminder on our low mileage, 10 plus month old Clarity so I speculate with no personal data. Leop
Thanks. I reset the MM item 1 (tire rotation) just as you did and the next service message changed to 12 months net from 10 months net. Like you, I have 2 sets of tire, OEM and snows, and rotate them front to back at each seasonal change.
Just a question on MM. When I go into the display on my head unit as well as in my dash, it shows 2 months to next service yet I don't see any A code or any codes that everyone is mentioning. Does it only show up closer to the date or am I missing something?
I bought my Clarity in mid-Aug and now has 4800km/3000miles on it. The MM indicates 5 months to maintenance. I swapped to snow tires 2nd week of Dec but I just find out I can reset the MM for code '1' rotate tires so I did it this morning. After I reset '1', the MM now indicates 7 months to next maintenance. I will be changing my tires back in end of April and will reset '1' again, wonder if this will extend the MM yet again
1. Set the power mode to ON. 2. Press the (display/information) button. 3. Press the </> button to select the 'wrench' icon, and press the ENTER button. 4. Press and hold the ENTER button for about 10 seconds to enter the reset mode. 5. Press up/down to select a maintenance item to reset (tire rotation is 1), or to select All Due Items (You can also select Cancel to end the process). 6. Press the ENTER button to reset the selected item. 7. Repeat from step 4 for other items you wish to reset. Edit: Note that Step 4 does not work if your charger is plugged in, so unplug before this procedure Edit 2: Page 479 of the owner's manual under 'Resetting the Display'
I’ve just reset the tire rotation maintenance reminder on my Clarity since I also installed snow tires. The service reminder went from 7 weeks to 5 months as a result! That puts the first service at about 1 year since we took delivery. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post about this issue
Another point for MM. I had my MM popped up last week stating A1 is needed soon (4 weeks to next service) at 6500 miles. I had my tires rotated at a friend's garage and reset the 1, checking the MM again shows 5 months which also corresponding to 12 months since I bought the Clarity. It does look like the A is shown every time there's a need for other services (like "1" for tire rotation). So if you do this, no need for oil change so early (I only had 20 gallons burned).
The battery charge mode obviously puts strain on the engine, but regular hybrid or direct drive should not put more strain than a regular car. The engine is naturally aspirated and port injected and high load demand is modulated by the electric motor, so it should have an easy life. Now considering it runs only a fraction of the time comparing to an ICE, I don't see how it might need the same oil change interval. I believe the most strain on the for an ICE car is acceleration, in Clarity this is done using the motor mainly. A sustained 8% grade for 20-30 miles is hard on engine, but again it is not that different than an ICE car, particularly if you plan ahead and keep a good charge in the battery. The oil volume is a bit small comparing to modern engines, but I don't believe that is the reason for short oil change interval. I think it is either a software glitch or a decision to maintain the same service algorithm from regular hybrid models. On a side note, is there anyway to check engine RPM while driving?
